Ohio Casino Cheating

[WVRadar]

excellent well written and thought out post.......you raised some issues that I did not address, and the fact that you actually LIVE in west virginia and have experienced and seen all that you have gives your viewpoint added strength and credence.The issue as a whole is a lot more complex obviously than I described.....your community could actually be one of the LUCKY ones (no pun intended) in that the casinos you have in your area actually do ADD more than they take away, when ALL things are considered.    But I would still like to know HOW long you have had the casinos open in your area, and I would advise that, if it has only been a few years, give it some more time to wait and see what shakes out.....But egad....the STEEL industry!   My hats off to you and your company's survival.....the history of the steel industry in the USA is both a tale of GREATNESS and National Pride, and also a tale of WOE and how TECHNOLOGY and many so-called advances in efficiency actually DESTROYS jobs!     That is actually part of this whole equation and situation of wealth concentration and the disappearance of the Middle class.....advances in computer and automation have literally caused millions of JOBS to "vanish" while concentrating vast wealth into a a few hands......

Mountaineer Casino, Racetrak and Resort was initially a horse racing venue incorporated in 1937 as Waterford Downs. In 1992 the track was sold to California based Excalibur holding company for $4 million dollars plus 2.7 million in stock. The company was authorized to have slot machines when West Virginia passed the Racetrack Video Lottery Act which permitted the operation of gaming machines at Mountaineer and three other racetracks, including Wheeling Island, which is a Dog Racing Track. Excalibur is now known as MTR Gaming Group.

My wife and I had always made it a point to go to the track at least once a year to bet on the horses. We had been doing this since we returned home after my enlistment with the Air Force expired in 1974. Once we were introduced to the slots, instead of once a year we probably went about once a month. After many enjoyable nights playing the nickel slots I started playing the Video Poker machines. I was immediately attracted to the idea that I might really have an input on whether I won or lost instead of just hitting the spin button.

I believe that if not for the introduction of the slots (keep in mind, that this was long before Ohio and Pennsylvania passed gambling laws) that Mountaineer would have followed the lead of the steel industry and been shut down long ago. With the advent of gambling in Ohio and Pennsylvania, revenues at Mountaineer have gone down but the company also owns Presque Isle Downs in Erie, Pennsylvania and Scioto Downs in Ohio.

Although I don't like to discuss politics in a public forum, I couldn't agree with you more about your observations on the middle class of this nation.

[DaBurglar]

Thanks for the thought provoking reply WVRADAR......I find it interesting that your state (West Virginia) was also severely damaged when PENNSYLVANIA opened up a bunch of casinos starting 2006 and quickly became the number 2 gambling market in the country, surpassing the quickly evaporating Atlantic City market to fall in behind Vegas on the ranking list.....I mean, WOW, Pennsylvania really clobbered a LOT of people and gambling markets, not just AC.     Along with west Virginia, I have also been reading up on how Pennsylvania impacted (and continues to impact) New York State and the Native American casinos in that area that extend beyond the border into Canada along the border(s) with NY and along the great lakes region......I wonder, looking back with obvious hindsight, if Pennsylvania had been somehow LIMITED in the number of TOTAL casinos it could bring online in such a short period, if that might have allowed some of the neighboring markets a chance to respond instead of being overwhelmed.I mean look at the facts:  Pennsylvania went all the way to number two in a VERY short period (5 years.....by 2001 they had surpasSed AC!)     That speaks to a lot of different conclusions, namely, just how BAD did AC's service and how stale had its offerings become to cause such a massive and speedy EXIT by its customers!!!!   I mean, WOW......And seeing as how West Virginia was impacted, what did Pennsylvania offer that was so GREAT and fabulous that gamblers from ALL over the region (not just ac) felt compelled to take their play TO Pennsylvania!!!!!?????? 

[JIMDUECE`SWILD]

IMO, easy access to the casino located around Phila. are along I-95. This area covers PA. ( of course ) Southern New Jersey, and Delaware.The Sands casino in Bethlehem is located off RT. I-78. This covers mid- New Jersey and is only 1hr. to 1½ hr drive from NY area. The rest of the state the casino's are spread through out.From what I have heard from friends the Sands gives good comps and coin offers. Now they have a hotel for you to stay.  

[WVRadar]

I wonder, looking back with obvious hindsight, if Pennsylvania had been somehow LIMITED in the number of TOTAL casinos it could bring online in such a short period, if that might have allowed some of the neighboring markets a chance to respond instead of being overwhelmed.I mean look at the facts:  Pennsylvania went all the way to number two in a VERY short period (5 years.....by 2001 they had surpasSed AC!)     That speaks to a lot of different conclusions, namely, just how BAD did AC's service and how stale had its offerings become to cause such a massive and speedy EXIT by its customers!!!!   I mean, WOW......And seeing as how West Virginia was impacted, what did Pennsylvania offer that was so GREAT and fabulous that gamblers from ALL over the region (not just ac) felt compelled to take their play TO Pennsylvania!!!!!?????? 



In my opinion the main factor involved in Pennsylvania's effect on the West Virginia casinos is that a lot of Mountaineer's clientel came from Pennsylvania and Ohio. A lot of people would rather gamble closer to home than make the drive or bustrip to Mountaineer. West Virginia tried to alleviate the situation by allowing table games when Pennsylvania opened their casinos, but it wasn't long before Pennsylvania followed suit.

The one time I traveled to Atlantic City I was stuck in traffic going around Philadelphia for quite a while. That's enough to keep me from visiting AC again. We used to make several trips to New York...Seneca Niagara and Seneca Allegheny, but it's been a while since we did that.

Our favorite local casino is The Meadows, about 30 miles away in Washington, PA. My wife likes the slots they offer and they constantly update their machines. I like it because the Video Poker offered is much better than West Virginia. West Virginia limits it's payouts on slots to 95%, so their Video Poker is pretty limited...I don't think they even have any IGT machines.

[williejoe]

daburglar----you are right on the mark---all we need is some more open-mined, progressive thinkers like you who will continue to advocate for more government, more taxes ( lets take it all from those greedy 1% bastards with their fancy jobs that brag about all the taxes they pay to support us progressive thinkers ----- and lets have more regulations and taxes on these evil businesses that claim they create jobs ( but we progressives know that only government and labor unions can do this ). if we can get just create more poor, uneducated citizens who care about this country------then we can create a true nirvana by having more liberals----woops, i mean progressives----elected to office, so we can redistribute all that ill gotten wealth from these greety people with their jobs ( bragging about how much taxes they pay ) and these evil business creators. after all---who know better than government as to who should have what-----boy! just writting this makes we want to go beat up a tea party person-----vladimir lenin forever!!!!

[notes1]

williejoe, let me know when you are running for political office, you got my vote.

[DaBurglar]

daburglar----you are right on the mark---all we need is some more open-mined, progressive thinkers like you who will continue to advocate for more government, more taxes ( lets take it all from those greedy 1% bastards with their fancy jobs that brag about all the taxes they pay to support us progressive thinkers ----- and lets have more regulations and taxes on these evil businesses that claim they create jobs ( but we progressives know that only government and labor unions can do this ). if we can get just create more poor, uneducated citizens who care about this country------then we can create a true nirvana by having more liberals----woops, i mean progressives----elected to office, so we can redistribute all that ill gotten wealth from these greety people with their jobs ( bragging about how much taxes they pay ) and these evil business creators. after all---who know better than government as to who should have what-----boy! just writting this makes we want to go beat up a tea party person-----vladimir lenin forever!!!!lol   pretty funny post williejoeAnyone who is both honest and intelligent knows, however, that this is NOT what I am advocating, and is the typical PROPAGANDA that Tea Party, ignorant right wing extremists advocate.....it is a farcical distortion of REALISTIC, Centrist viewpoints that most partisan republicans these days spout to HIDE the fact that the extreme elements of the Republican party have NO SOLUTIONS, no ANSWERS for the problems and issues facing the USA TODAY! Guess what?   I am NEITHER a Republican, nor a DEMOCRAT.....I am a true INDEPENDENT, and if you want, I will gladly post a long article about EVERYTHING that is wrong with the Democrats and Obama......seriously, if I had to choose the next president of the USA, right now I would choose  JEB Bush simply because I feel he is the BEST, most realistic, MODERATE candidate out there, even though, as I stated I am NOT a republican.The bad news for people like you is that the REPUBLICANS are NOT the party of SMALLER or "LESS" government.......they simply want to spend taxpayer dollars on DIFFERENT things than the Democrats want to spend (or BLOW) money on!    It's true.....I am sick of the democrats in so many areas that I cannot spend time here talking about because it will get me in serious trouble (lets just say I am AGAINST the many things DEMOCRATS include in their so-called  PLATFORM/AGENDA, like "rights" for certain special interest groups who really do not deserve to BE a special interest group.....and I think the Democrats are too EAGER to TAX and SPEND in a general manner.)The Republicans have NO ANSWER or SOLUTION when it comes to health care......sure, Obama care is AWFUL, but the problem is this;   EVERYONE deserves BASIC healthcare (it is NOT a "privilege" nor is it something that only people with money or jobs should have.....ANY HUMAN BEING, any AGE deserves to be treated if they are sick...)    SO how do we provide or pay for this???     Seriously, how do you suggest this happen?   And what do you suggest we do about the UNDENIABLE fact that the richest 1% keep acquiring more and more wealth, and keep stocking it away in overseas or offshore accounts or in tax shelters that benefit NO ONE but the rich.......this is Unhealthy and UNSUSTAINABLE.....what is NOT happening any where near the rate it is touted is the wealthy are NOT re-investing that money, they are NOT "creating jobs" etc.    There is no incentive for the Rich to do this, but if TAXES are reformed and applied in the right manner to force the wealthy to actually re-invest all their money or else see it hit with taxes, then tax policy CAN actually help economic growth.And yes, the Government CAN help provide or produce JOBS, real JOBS:   When we increase defense spending (something I support and which most republicans AUTOMATICALLY support, and LOVE!  And by the way, DEFENSE SPENDING is an example of MORE or "BIGGER" Government) it creates JOBS.....when the Government begins PUBLIC works or infrastructure programs, it DEFINITELY employs lots of people;   

[MPD001]

[QUOTE=williejoe]daburglar----you are right on the mark---all we need is some more open-mined, progressive thinkers like you who will continue to advocate for more government, more taxes ( lets take it all from those greedy 1% bastards with their fancy jobs that brag about all the taxes they pay to support us progressive thinkers ----- and lets have more regulations and taxes on these evil businesses that claim they create jobs ( but we progressives know that only government and labor unions can do this ). if we can get just create more poor, uneducated citizens who care about this country------then we can create a true nirvana by having more liberals----woops, i mean progressives----elected to office, so we can redistribute all that ill gotten wealth from these greety people with their jobs ( bragging about how much taxes they pay ) and these evil business creators. after all---who know better than government as to who should have what-----boy! just writting this makes we want to go beat up a tea party person-----vladimir lenin forever!!!!lol   pretty funny post williejoe
And what do you suggest we do about the UNDENIABLE fact that the richest 1% keep acquiring more and more wealth, and keep stocking it away in overseas or offshore accounts or in tax shelters that benefit NO ONE but the rich.......this is Unhealthy and UNSUSTAINABLE.....what is NOT happening any where near the rate it is touted is the wealthy are NOT re-investing that money, they are NOT "creating jobs" etc.    [/QUOTE]
Two points: I heard someone say once that he never got a job from a POOR man.
Also, Robert Kraft (net worth $4B) bought the New England Patriots in 1994 for $175M to prevent them from being shipped out of the NE area to St Louis. Tom Brady's salary is about $9m/yr. How's that for keeping it in the USA.

[DaBurglar]

 
Two points: I heard someone say once that he never got a job from a POOR man.
Also, Robert Kraft (net worth $4B) bought the New England Patriots in 1994 for $175M to prevent them from being shipped out of the NE area to St Louis. Tom Brady's salary is about $9m/yr. How's that for keeping it in the USA. This is  a (more or less)  GOOD example of the rich getting richer and it having "spillover"  or trickle down benefits to the rest of society.....first off, the PAtriots  EMPLOY a lot of people and have built REAL infrastructure and jobs into the community of foxborough and eastern MAssachusetts (heck, not just Gillete Stadium, but there is a virtual "THEME PARK" next to it comrpised of a year round patriots museum and Hall of fame, a couple restaurants and a nice big Hotel which all remain open year round and employ hundreds of people.....and of course, the fact that Kraft must pay his team (players & Personnel) big bucks is a good thing, because we all know how athletes tend to SPEND SPEND SPEND (or for a few INVEST wisely)  and all that is GOOD for the economy, even though most PROFESSIONAL Athletes making over 500 grand a year are De facto ALSO part of the "1%"

[notes1]

let's correct a false reading of the medias new hot topic, wealth disparity.   it is a fact that there is greater wealth accumulated by the top couple of percent, especially in the last 5 years. but, the main reason for this happening is almost never discussed. when the financial markets collaspsed in 2008, the wealthy actually LOST a greater share of their wealth, than average americans. when the stock market started rising in mid 2009, the wealthy gained a much larger share of the wealth. both of these facts, happened for the same reason. it has long been known that the majority of the wealth in average america is in their home. for a number of reasons, they have simply not saved/invested enough and spent too large a percentage of their income on housing. the wealthy have more of their wealth invested outside of their home. thus, while average home prices are still below 2007 levels, the financial markets are significantlly higher than their previous peak in 2007. it is not that the wealthy's total wealth has grown that much over the past few years, but rather the average/poor american's wealth has not grown or gone down.