MAssachusetts CAsino wars are heating up

[DaBurglar]

If any of you are following the latest news out of Massachusetts and Connecticut, the latest fiasco involves the tribal gaming entities in Connecticut (Mohegan  and Foxwoods) are trying to "pre-emptively strike"  against the looming MGM-Springfield resort that is being built starting MArch 24 (ground breaking day).....The gaming authorities, certain legislators, and obviously the casinos  in  Connecticut  are shaing in their boots at the prospect of LOSING revenue and market share to the MGM project (since MGM has a reputation of really building outstanding new properties)......people are panicking that "JOBS" are going to be lost in Conn.  once MGM springfield is online in 2017!This is absurd........the Mohegan and Foxwoods people want to build no less than 3 (three)  additional casinos of smaller size  at strategically prominent spots along the Massachusetts / Connecticut border, most notably between Hartford (with its extremely lucrative, upper class neighborhoods and its Insurance companies)  and Springfield along Interstate 91.What do you all make of this crap?   Someone explain to me WHY Mohegan and Foxwoods cannot leverage their existing properties better?   why dilute their own backyard market share even more in a silly effort to simply keep it from going to Massachusetts?     How come they cannot step up their game and make the existing HUGE properties in Connecticut more attractive so as to minimize the likelihood of people switching their loyalty to MGM-Springfield??What is wrong with this picture?    Casinos are oversaturated so the answer is BUILD MORE????   wtf?

[VP_vp]

Gamblers will most likely go to the "easiest" casino they can get to, given similar quality of casinos.

Quite simply cause it's a straight shot from Hartford to Springfield through I-91. Going to Foxwoods/Mohegan will quite simply take longer (even if the distance is about the same). By improving their facilities to par with MGM will not be enough. It'll likely take a lot less capital to build a competing casino between Hartford and Springfield to siphon off the same amount of revenue away from MGM (compared to renovating their existing ones beyond MGM standards).

[Tedlark]

If patrons of Mohegan and Foxwoods are loyal to Mohegan and Foxwoods and if it is an easier commute for these same loyal patrons to patronize a casino owned/operated by Mohegan or Foxwoods that is closer then; it is a no brainer. If pay schedules are decent, casino and/or hotel ammenities are the same, so be it.

I don't understand why DaBurglar would refer to this as "crap" given that he has said he will not patronize a casino that is being constructed down the street from where he lives.

If there are several casinos within a relatively small geographic region this will create competition amongst them, dont you think? This maqy equate to better things for gamblers in that region.

Because MGM may be able to present to gamblers a better opportunity on a nationwide basis, similar to CET, this could also work in their favor to keep existing patrons or lure new gamblers from Mohegan and/or Foxwoods. So, Mohegan and Foxwoods are building closer to MGM to stave off MGM.   

    

[ko king]

   If patrons of Mohegan and Foxwoods are loyal to Mohegan and Foxwoods and if it is an easier commute for these same loyal patrons to patronize a casino owned/operated by Mohegan or Foxwoods that is closer then; it is a no brainer. If pay schedules are decent, casino and/or hotel ammenities are the same, so be it.

I don't understand why DaBurglar would refer to this as "crap" given that he has said he will not patronize a casino that is being constructed down the street from where he lives.

If there are several casinos within a relatively small geographic region this will create competition amongst them, dont you think? This maqy equate to better things for gamblers in that region.

Because MGM may be able to present to gamblers a better opportunity on a nationwide basis, similar to CET, this could also work in their favor to keep existing patrons or lure new gamblers from Mohegan and/or Foxwoods. So, Mohegan and Foxwoods are building closer to MGM to stave off MGM.   

    

"Competition", sure didn't happen in Tunica, it's more like a race to the bottom and I have no idea which casino in that area will win. The "we're no worse than any other casino in this area" attitude amazes me but they seem satisfied with that business approach.

[Tedlark]

Tunica is a nightmare that; it seems like no casino wants to awake from. Geographically what is close by? Biloxi? St. Louis? Southern Illinois? Having been to Tunica several times in the past few years Ive seen the decline and as a matter of fact,I stayed at Harrah's the weekend before they closed.

Taking good care of the player has been lost in Tunica and the same can be said for Atlantic City.

I recently got an email from Harrah's Joliet,IL and in the email they claim to have improved their video poker pay schedules but I haven't been there yet to confirm.   

[ko king]

   Tunica is a nightmare that; it seems like no casino wants to awake from. Geographically what is close by? Biloxi? St. Louis? Southern Illinois? Having been to Tunica several times in the past few years Ive seen the decline and as a matter of fact,I stayed at Harrah's the weekend before they closed.

Taking good care of the player has been lost in Tunica and the same can be said for Atlantic City.

I recently got an email from Harrah's Joliet,IL and in the email they claim to have improved their video poker pay schedules but I haven't been there yet to confirm.   

Nothing's really close by, but it never was. For almost 15 years the place was jumping, there was a steady line of traffic on highway 61, both coming and going, Tunica killed itself with greed and incompetence. Give me 1 casino in Tunica and I would have that place filled to the gills. they obviously don't care.

[notes1]

[QUOTE=Tedlark]   Tunica is a nightmare that; it seems like no casino wants to awake from. Geographically what is close by? Biloxi? St. Louis? Southern Illinois? Having been to Tunica several times in the past few years Ive seen the decline and as a matter of fact,I stayed at Harrah's the weekend before they closed.

Taking good care of the player has been lost in Tunica and the same can be said for Atlantic City.

I recently got an email from Harrah's Joliet,IL and in the email they claim to have improved their video poker pay schedules but I haven't been there yet to confirm.   

Nothing's really close by, but it never was. For almost 15 years the place was jumping, there was a steady line of traffic on highway 61, both coming and going, Tunica killed itself with greed and incompetence. Give me 1 casino in Tunica and I would have that place filled to the gills. they obviously don't care.[/QUOTE]
 not an expert on tunica, but it's heyday wa when there were far fewer casinos in america. once the states say how much tax revenue was flying to AC and miss., they wanted in on the feast. i doubt tunica will ever recover. might have a few places, but will never be the same.

[DaBurglar]

It's "crap" because this whole situation is absurd.....MGM announces they are coming (as are two other properties in eastern massachusetts, including a 1.6 Billion dollar WYNN property!) in Mass, because MASSACHUSETTS is tired of seeing its "potential tax dollars" flying across the border to Connecticut.....so MASS implements gambling.Now Connecticut (and its two casino behemoths), who have been in this business since 1994 and have managed, despite having a huge head start and advantages, to squander a lot of their potential benefits.   The two Tribal properties in Connecticut are both in sorry shape, having laid off and curtailed their businesses to a large extent, and both are in huge debt (especially Foxwoods.)   So to prevent "their tax revenue and JOBS" from fleeing across the border to MASS, Connecticut decides to build several smaller casinos close to the MAss Border......???     No one see's the absurdity in this whole situation/scenario?What's next, drive thru mini casinos on every other block/street corner designed to "capture" that BLOCK's gambling revenue?      This is out of control.......You said it yourself Ted, even though you are once again just disagreeing with me to disagree with me......if Mohegan and Foxwoods simply focus on managing their two flagship, state of the art HUGE properties, and doing right by their customers and players, it will attract them back and/or keep them, to the extent its at all possible.....Let's face it, when MGM opens, and WYNN, people are going to initially check them out.....and then it becomes a true competition, and since we are all ardent capitalists here (right?), proponents of the American way, it becomes "may the best casino win!"But building and building and building more and more casinos just to prevent the other side from capturing business is NOT a good healthy LONG TERM strategy......there is NOT enough business to support the existing casinos at the level everyone wants, so why is diluting the situation even more a viable option???And NO I will not be a REGULAR patron of MGM Springfield (but of course, I will check it out when it opens......and if, by some fantastic chance, they happen to have a good, vibrant POKER scene with a great Poker room, well then, THAT is something I would actually support....but so far I have not seen or heard any evidence that they plan on HAVING a significant POKER room)       But, regardless of whether I personally choose to patronize the new place........ I am a resident and taxpayer living 10 minutes from the MGM site, so its success and performance IS of interest to me!!!    It's Amazing how someone like Ted with as much alleged "knowledge" and insight on how casinos work and impact local economies and cities (given where he lives with that state's sordid history with gambling and casinos) could not figure that out.....

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar you need to go back and reread my post. I said that if Mohegan and Foxwoods build casinos that may be close to the MA state line and if these same casinos are patronized by clients of Mohegan and Foxwoods because they're easier to get to than the ORIGINAL Mohegan and Foxwoods; then so be it.    Why are you so against more casinos in the same geographic region as yours? You said "we are all capitalists" oops, ARDENT CAPITALISTS, and capitalists are for growth, making money and expanding. Competition creates opportunity.   And, you say that you will NOT be a patron of MGM Springfield but then in true DaBurglar fashion you totally flip flop your position and then say you would support MGM Springfield.   I don't disagree with you just to disagree with you. I disagree with you because I don't AGREE with you, plain and simple. Again, someone has an opposing view than yours and you try to spin it.    Getting to "mini casinos" that youo mentioned I will offer this: if you study the New Jersey Gaming Regulations you will see that your beloved Atlantic City can have them too. But then again, you probably allready knew that, gigglesnort.   Mohegan and Foxwoods have seen their revenues CUT IN HALF from their highs in the early 2000's and they are doing what they have to do to try and recapture (or pick up new) revenue. What is so crappy and absurd about that?    Lastly, MGM didn't announce they were coming to Mass.; THEY WERE CHOSEN. It's not like their BOD just woke one morning and they all had the same idea while showering; "Hey let's build a casino in Mass." Mohegan and Foxwoods were going to build their new casinos regardless of who WAS CHOSEN to own and operate the casino in that area.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=ko king] [QUOTE=Tedlark]   Tunica is a nightmare that; it seems like no casino wants to awake from. Geographically what is close by? Biloxi? St. Louis? Southern Illinois? Having been to Tunica several times in the past few years Ive seen the decline and as a matter of fact,I stayed at Harrah's the weekend before they closed.

Taking good care of the player has been lost in Tunica and the same can be said for Atlantic City.

I recently got an email from Harrah's Joliet,IL and in the email they claim to have improved their video poker pay schedules but I haven't been there yet to confirm.   

Nothing's really close by, but it never was. For almost 15 years the place was jumping, there was a steady line of traffic on highway 61, both coming and going, Tunica killed itself with greed and incompetence. Give me 1 casino in Tunica and I would have that place filled to the gills. they obviously don't care.[/QUOTE]
 not an expert on tunica, but it's heyday wa when there were far fewer casinos in america. once the states say how much tax revenue was flying to AC and miss., they wanted in on the feast. i doubt tunica will ever recover. might have a few places, but will never be the same.[/QUOTE]


I don't pretend to be an expert on Tunica either but I do know business. I was there from day one to the present and I for many years witnessed a good product that brought in players in droves. The downfall began well before competition and anything to do with the economy. The casinos tightened up on the slots, it was easy to see for someone like myself who went all the time. The machines just weren't hitting like they used to and after a while more and more players were beginning to feel the pinch. Most players began to scatter looking for greener grass but found nothing more than the same old same old, the price of playing had gone up. So many players just got fed up with so much bad, some cut down on how often they went while others just quit going all together. Instead of taking notice of the bleeding of lost players and taking steps to try and win back players the casinos did just the opposite, they tightened up even further to control lost revenue. Then to top it off the economy went sour and that's when the you know what hit the fan. Even fewer players were showing up and the casinos started to lay off more and more employees and cutting things to the bone. That's about the time I started to see my vp play turn ugly, just like the slots, the cost of play had gone up. I kid you not, it went from having a hard time to find a vp machine to play to being almost the only one playing. I mentioned the only other casino in this area that really competes with the Tunica market, I stopped in there today and the place was packed. The casino just got thru a couple of months ago building on to the size of the casino and adding a super nice sports bar with the coldest beer to be found. Next year the place is breaking ground on a new hotel and I've been told they have other plans that are going to happen also in the near future. Now how is this place growing by leaps and bounds while Tunica slips into the muddy waters of the Mississippi River, the players recognize good value when they see it. Sure players may have a few more options now but they will still flock to the place they feel provides the best value for their gaming dollars.