The "Greed Chip" strikes again

[BobDancer]

Although I'd prefer higher stakes --- if playing for these stake was my thing (and depending on the slot club and promotions) --- I would eagerly play these machines. Despite several players saying the game appears to be tighter to them. Other players complain about short run dry spells. I know there will be days where I hit several sets of aces. I know there will be days where quads are hard to come by. That's the nature of the game WHEN IT'S DEALT FAIRLY. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen! If you're on a limited bankroll, avoid DDB and TDB. They have big swings to them.I use pay schedule to base my decisions on. If it's an IGT game and the book says it returns 99.9%+ (as these 10/6 DDB games probably do --- the actual amount can vary depending on the amount you get for the straight flush), then I'm all over it. Somebody else telling me they ran badly on a machine is not useful information to me at all.I'd sure love it if these same machines came in $5 / $10 / $25 denominations! My experience with playing these machines when the SLS opened 7 months ago is recounted in these two articles.http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_danc ... 4/1118.cfm Simply put, game even at $1 and higher denominations, with 99.9%+ returns, WILL NOT LAST at most casinos. Those of you who conclude that these games are unfair and should be avoided give those of us with more knowledge about video poker machines greater access to the machines. Thank you very much!Bob

[spxChrome]

ok

[FAA]

If you're on a limited bankroll, avoid DDB and TDB.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~This bears repeating. I would add a warning to avoid min bet dollar JOB. Counterintuitively, this wipes you out more often than not as well.

[DaBurglar]

remember.....B. Dancer plays almost exlusively in Nevada, Las Vegas, and I have been saying since I came here that of ALL the VP markets the one I still would be inclined to trust and have faith that ALL is exactly as it should be is Nevada's casinos.....I fully understand what Bahb Dancer is saying in this post above and concur it is the correct outlook on the issue at hand (in THEORY and assuming all is KOSHER in the set up and operation of said VP machines)   I kinda am a little put off by his "Tude" towards SPX and any other wayward amateurs getting upset at what they perceive as some sort of problem or unfair activity......SPX to his credit does document certain key stats and hits (which goes to show everyone that all the years I did the same thing it is indeed VERY possible and not nearly the BIG DEAL some of you make it out to be.....)      I think Bob could find a kinder gentler way to tell us we are morons.....But until Bob can allocate a good 3-4 month span of time playing in Atlantic City, I am going to sit here and steadfastly maintain that, while I repeat my belief and faith in the integrity of Video Poker in Ls Vegas, Reno and most other Nevada locales, I KNOW KNOW KNOW that in Atlantic City the video poker machines (a good portion of them) is/are NOT operating with or under the same exact parameters .....something, somehow is allowing the machines to regularly generate SLOT-Like returns of low to mid 80s% returns, the hand result distributions are statistically skewed way out of bounds of expected norms, and no one can explain WHY......I have a number of opinions as to how or why this may be playing out, not the least of which is, given the absolute desperate state of things with the BUSINESS climate in AC the past 6-7 years, and given the fact the gaming regs for NJ are so weirdly worded compared to other locales, I think there is just some systemic, accepted "norm" in AC for at least a good portion of its VP machines to be set to return percentages well below the paytables indication.     Even with LOUSY paytables like 8/5 JOB (or many other worse examples like 8/5 DDB 7/5 BP  etc  etc) which should be giving returns in the mid 90s or higher, AC machines SOMEHOW spew out results that take you into the depths of hell (low 80s or worse).I have seen the dud rate (non paying hands) on many AC machines consistently exceed the expected 55% time after time (65-70%)......I know that AC regards VP as just another slot machine.......and we all know AC is suffering terribly and its gaming regulators have been severely laid off and shunted from department to department due to the economic situation,,,,,,tell my why and how, then, IF.....IF a AC casino were clearly violating the expected norms and standards for Video poker, some NJ gaming agent would "nail them for it?"     Would not happen....will not happen.    It just won't......And for those of you who insist that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to "mess" with the machines, who site roveer's bizarre experimentation and tinkering with a supposed carbon copy of a VP machine used by AC casinos......none of us truly understand the flexibility and dynamic user-defined capabilities that come with modern day Video Poker machines, to say nothing of the capabilities that exist on SERVER based systems!    In short, it is NOT impossible to "mess" with the games.......c'mon.

[Tedlark]

remember.....B. Dancer plays almost exlusively in Nevada, Las Vegas, and I have been saying since I came here that of ALL the VP markets the one I still would be inclined to trust and have faith that ALL is exactly as it should be is Nevada's casinos.....I fully understand what Bahb Dancer is saying in this post above and concur it is the correct outlook on the issue at hand (in THEORY and assuming all is KOSHER in the set up and operation of said VP machines)   I kinda am a little put off by his "Tude" towards SPX and any other wayward amateurs getting upset at what they perceive as some sort of problem or unfair activity......SPX to his credit does document certain key stats and hits (which goes to show everyone that all the years I did the same thing it is indeed VERY possible and not nearly the BIG DEAL some of you make it out to be.....)      I think Bob could find a kinder gentler way to tell us we are morons.....But until Bob can allocate a good 3-4 month span of time playing in Atlantic City, I am going to sit here and steadfastly maintain that, while I repeat my belief and faith in the integrity of Video Poker in Ls Vegas, Reno and most other Nevada locales, I KNOW KNOW KNOW that in Atlantic City the video poker machines (a good portion of them) is/are NOT operating with or under the same exact parameters .....something, somehow is allowing the machines to regularly generate SLOT-Like returns of low to mid 80s% returns, the hand result distributions are statistically skewed way out of bounds of expected norms, and no one can explain WHY......I have a number of opinions as to how or why this may be playing out, not the least of which is, given the absolute desperate state of things with the BUSINESS climate in AC the past 6-7 years, and given the fact the gaming regs for NJ are so weirdly worded compared to other locales, I think there is just some systemic, accepted "norm" in AC for at least a good portion of its VP machines to be set to return percentages well below the paytables indication.     Even with LOUSY paytables like 8/5 JOB (or many other worse examples like 8/5 DDB 7/5 BP  etc  etc) which should be giving returns in the mid 90s or higher, AC machines SOMEHOW spew out results that take you into the depths of hell (low 80s or worse).I have seen the dud rate (non paying hands) on many AC machines consistently exceed the expected 55% time after time (65-70%)......I know that AC regards VP as just another slot machine.......and we all know AC is suffering terribly and its gaming regulators have been severely laid off and shunted from department to department due to the economic situation,,,,,,tell my why and how, then, IF.....IF a AC casino were clearly violating the expected norms and standards for Video poker, some NJ gaming agent would "nail them for it?"     Would not happen....will not happen.    It just won't......And for those of you who insist that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to "mess" with the machines, who site roveer's bizarre experimentation and tinkering with a supposed carbon copy of a VP machine used by AC casinos......none of us truly understand the flexibility and dynamic user-defined capabilities that come with modern day Video Poker machines, to say nothing of the capabilities that exist on SERVER based systems!    In short, it is NOT impossible to "mess" with the games.......c'mon.



    I will keep my response strictly to what DaBurglar has written and it will remain business and not personal.    DaBurglar states that Bob Dancer only plays in Las Vegas and until Bob allocates 3-4 months playing in Atlantic City, etc. etc. etc....   DaBurglar KNOWS that there is an almost absolute certainty that Bob Dancer will only play in Las Vegas and not gamble in Atlantic City.    What is DaBurglar trying to compare video poker machines in Atlantic City to? How are the New Jersey Gaming regulations worded so differently than the gaming regulations in other gaming markets?    I don't think anyone here has said that it is physically impossible to "mess" with video poker machines. It is very physically possible to  "mess" with them but again, why would a casino gaming corporation TAKE THAT CHANCE? Especially if they don't have to because according to DaBurglar, these same coprorations are reaping so much from having the machines return lower payouts to the players?    DaBurglar says that he has: "a number of opinions as to how or why this may be playing out." It is my belief that a person can have only ONE opinion. A person may have a number of theories or speculations but should only have ONE  opinion.    I guess I'll play Captain Obvious here and say that DaBurglar has, again, offered nothing new in his post.

[Vman96]

How are the New Jersey Gaming regulations worded so differently than the gaming regulations in other gaming markets?

They are worded pretty differently. You need a decent knowledge of mathematics to be confident that New Jersey's regulations are equivalent Nevada's in terms of a "random, equally likely deck" (aka "live game correlation"). I still think NJ have some of the worst written regulations for this important criterion. Nevada is much more clear.

[FAA]

Ota, I'm starting to share your view. Yesterday I played over 800 hands on AC JOB. Without a quad. Some full pay that was. Full Take. The machine next to it continued to pay well even after my quad. Guess where my next 1000 hands will be played. Just keep quads coming on schedule and I am a happy camper. Misery loves company and you found more of it. Like they say, a conservative is a liberal who got mugged.

[Tedlark]

[QUOTE=Tedlark] How are the New Jersey Gaming regulations worded so differently than the gaming regulations in other gaming markets?

They are worded pretty differently. You need a decent knowledge of mathematics to be confident that New Jersey's regulations are equivalent Nevada's in terms of a "random, equally likely deck" (aka "live game correlation"). I still think NJ have some of the worst written regulations for this important criterion. Nevada is much more clear.[/QUOTE]

I'll have to spend some time reading through the Nevada regs and compare to the New Jersey regs. Who knows, I could get to Atlantic City before the end of summer.

[DaBurglar]

  They are worded pretty differently. You need a decent knowledge of mathematics to be confident that New Jersey's regulations are equivalent Nevada's in terms of a "random, equally likely deck" (aka "live game correlation"). I still think NJ have some of the worst written regulations for this important criterion. Nevada is much more clear.I know you do not quite agree with my take on the actual "PRACTICE", or HOW the regs are implemented and enforced (i.e.  I still believe that the NJ regs are worded to ALLOW casinos to set VP machines like all the other SLOTS.)but thanks for confirming the point about the actually WORDING of the regulations....

[DaBurglar]

      I will keep my response strictly to what DaBurglar has written and it will remain business and not personal.    DaBurglar states that Bob Dancer only plays in Las Vegas and until Bob allocates 3-4 months playing in Atlantic City, etc. etc. etc....   DaBurglar KNOWS that there is an almost absolute certainty that Bob Dancer will only play in Las Vegas and not gamble in Atlantic City.I do?   How do I know Bob will NEVER EVER gamble in AC again?   absurd, idiotic point, no way to substantiate or back it up.....and more importantly.......WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT?!?!   I clearly emphasize that it is BECAUSE Bob has not, or does not play in AC that I disagree with his GENERAL point about the integrity of ALL VP machines, everywhere.   What is DaBurglar trying to compare video poker machines in Atlantic City to? How are the New Jersey Gaming regulations worded so differently than the gaming regulations in other gaming markets?     What am I trying to compare VP machines in AC to??????    huh?    you are attempting to criticize something you do not bother to read???     I am comparing AC to VEGAS......did anyone besides Tedlark  NOT get that part of my post?        I don't think anyone here has said that it is physically impossible to "mess" with video poker machines. It is very physically possible to  "mess" with them but again, why would a casino gaming corporation TAKE THAT CHANCE? Especially if they don't have to because according to DaBurglar, these same coprorations are reaping so much from having the machines return lower payouts to the players?I'm very clear in my SPECULATION that what I am offering is in fact...... SPECULATION!   But I clearly make the point that , BECAUSE AC is in such sorry economic shape (which is undeniable), and because AC casinos and the employees within them are literally being eliminated, or sit on the brink of elimination, (again an UNDENIABLE POINT OF FACT), it is NOT hard to imagine or suppose that some desperate people might see certain unethical activity as a "got nothing to lose" situation.   And NO, your false logic about casinos not having to "mess" with the machines because, "ACCORDING TO ME" , they are raking in the dough by having such lower payouts......nice try but that wont work Ted.   First, because AC business continues to plummet its obvious NO ONE IS raking in anything....second, by having such lousy paytables combined with such lOUSY returning and performing machines, AC continues to LOSE market share (i.e. ACTUAL PLAYERS!)   The fewer the players, the less revenue no matter WHAT or how the machines are set!     The only way to GROW VP revenue is to enhance the paytables and make sure that a machine that advertises  a 99% return ACTUALLY does return 99%....overtime, players will gravitate back to it (provided the casino does everything else right as well.)    SLashing returns or keeping them in the low 80s is a VERY short term way to fleece the few players you still have and ultimately LOSE them as well.   DaBurglar says that he has: "a number of opinions as to how or why this may be playing out." It is my belief that a person can have only ONE opinion. A person may have a number of theories or speculations but should only have ONE  opinion.    I guess I'll play Captain Obvious here and say that DaBurglar has, again, offered nothing new in his post.Well fortunately for ME, I can have as many opinions as I want about anything I want ....and if ....IF I did not offer anything "NEW", then neither did you.      HYPOCRISY once again......PS-   I am allowed to repeat myself as often as I like Ted, and the more you rant and rave about my "repeating myself", as if I am committing some god darn crime or something, the more absurd, ridiculous, petty and loony you make yourself appear.