Leaving Sunday 07-05

[FAA]

Okay, just One more try. DB really encapsulates it well. I don't know what more I can add to his masterful deconstruction, so I will simply paste:What he "means", and what you do not seem to grasp, is that there is a
LOT that goes into making a Slot or VP machine function
besides the relatively simple and basic component we know as the RNG
"Chip"...behind and within games such as DDB is
Software programs that simply incorporate the result generated by the
RNG chip and produce the actual gaming EXPERIENCE you and I observe on
the screen.

[onemoretry]

Okay, just One more try. DB really encapsulates it well. I don't know what more I can add to his masterful deconstruction, so I will simply paste:What he "means", and what you do not seem to grasp, is that there is a
LOT that goes into making a Slot or VP machine function
besides the relatively simple and basic component we know as the RNG
"Chip"...behind and within games such as DDB is
Software programs that simply incorporate the result generated by the
RNG chip and produce the actual gaming EXPERIENCE you and I observe on
the screen.

I have no difficulty at all with what is outlined above. However, DB avers that not only does the software incorporate the RNG output, but that the New Jersey regulation allows the casino, if it chooses, to massage the RNG results.

Others have pointed out to him that there is a section in New Jerseys regulation that deals specifically with skill based games such as video poker that renders them not just a regular slot. He seems to have ignored these comments and continues to forcefully express his unsupported strong opinion.

[FAA]

Others have pointed out to him that there is a section in NJ regulation that deals specifically with skill based games such
as video poker that renders them not just a regular slot.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay, I vaguely remember that point. Will have to go back and assess the merits then.

[DaBurglar]

I have not ignored anything in the NJ gaming regs....if anyone has ignored them, it is the AC casinos and the NJ gaming Commission (or whoever is performing their stated duties in New Jersey these days!)HERE is the BOTTOM LINE:    Until or unless people like Onemoretry actually go and play numerous times (say 50) in AC, over a period of at least a couple years (I've played almost 7 years) so that they accumulate (at least) about 1 million hands played total, their ranting and raving about MY RANTING AND RAVING is without merit or substance.    Video Poker in Atlantic City is NOT......repeat, NOT the same as in Nevada or many other gaming destinations in North America.    The games/machines are not set to yield the same type and range of results that most of us EXPECT video poker machines/games to yield....its is that simple.     Whether this is by design, by accident, or by ignorance (I have seen evidence for all three) is actually MOOT as far as the player is concerned:  If you play Video Poker in AC you run a far greater risk of seeing your bankroll disappear in a far more rapid manner without receiving much of anything along the way in terms of winners etc.       This does not mean (obviously) that absolutely NO ONE ever wins at VP in AC, but it does mean everyone, if they play long enough in AC at any of the casinos (save Borgata which SEEMS to be set to yield typical, Nevada-esque results), will experience some horrible, statistically aberrational results.My personal invitation stands to meet ANYONE in AC, and I will show them at various casinos SPECIFIC games/machines that will strongly indicate I am correct in my belief, .....

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar I would like to bring to your attention something that you skirt around when you compare video poker in Atlantic City to "Nevada-esque" video poker. If people play long enough in Nevada casinos their play will also be statistically the same in the long run too. This may not be as true for the visitors to Nevada because they usually are there fora short period of time and if they go on a little winning streak and leave then there is no losing that would generally accompany a winning burst.

I question your video poker results in Atlantic City as I wonder how much time you are spending in front of any video poker machine? Are you playing a given machine long enough to establish cycles in the machine or are you leaving a machine soon after beginning play because you had a few losing hands strung together?

[FAA]

How can any rational person put this much passion and energy into a philosophy and actually leave after a few bad hands? Let's employ some common sense here.
In related developments, I have decided to leave Caesars and try my luck elsewhere. I did see a $1200 STP win near me on my last visit. But that's not my world. Their full pay JOBs have fallen into such woeful, shameful disrepair that three of them deselect a player's hold within seconds, either w the third or fourth card on the screen. Perhaps a sign. They've given me more choice but to cease and desist. I'm leaving for the greener pastures at Borgata! Or so I hope. Hold me accountable, DB. I need to actually follow through w this. Old habits die hard.

[FAA]

VP in AC you run a far greater risk of seeing your bankroll
disappear in a far more rapid manner without receiving much in terms of winners etc. This does not mean
(obviously) that absolutely NO ONE ever wins at VP in AC, but it does
mean everyone, if they play long enough in AC at any of the casinos
(save Borgata which SEEMS to be set to yield typical, Nevada-esque results), will experience some horrible, statistically aberrational results.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay, DB. Per your recommendation, and Car's nice results, I drank the Kool Aid. Tastes pretty sweet. I had a fine day at that oasis in the marina. Strictly low roller level, but every machine hit and left up $39. I should have kept banging away, my only regret. Much better environment too. 

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar I would like to bring to your attention something that you skirt around when you compare video poker in Atlantic City to "Nevada-esque" video poker. If people play long enough in Nevada casinos their play will also be statistically the same in the long run too. This may not be as true for the visitors to Nevada because they usually are there fora short period of time and if they go on a little winning streak and leave then there is no losing that would generally accompany a winning burst.

I question your video poker results in Atlantic City as I wonder how much time you are spending in front of any video poker machine? Are you playing a given machine long enough to establish cycles in the machine or are you leaving a machine soon after beginning play because you had a few losing hands strung together? Again, visit AC, allow me to show you which casinos and which machines are at fault, and you will begin to see.....My results in AC since 2009 (almost 7 years now) reflect a lot of  moderately lengthy (under/around 5,000 hands or 4 hours) sessions.......it does not matter......at this point I have played many millions of hands at many different AC casinos since 2009.......still a limited sample but also BIG ENOUGH to draw solid realistic conclusions, which I have and which I have shared.     My Sample size is composed of a lot of small sessions accumulating hands played in each session ......I typically DO NOT have marathon sessions of 7 or more hours playing 40 or 50 thousand hands or more in one session......but again this does not matter.      If I play 1 million TOTAL hands and accumulate the whole sample in one huge session, or if I play 200 sessions of 5,000 hands each session, the data will reveal similar results .....

[FAA]

DB and Car, another fine day at the top joint in town. Won $85 and had an absolute blast in my two low rolling hours. Compared to the stress of Tropicana, Resorts and the CET trio, this oasis has saved my sanity. Thanks for the cheerleading. It is well deserved.

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar I would like to bring to your attention something that you skirt around when you compare video poker in Atlantic City to "Nevada-esque" video poker. If people play long enough in Nevada casinos their play will also be statistically the same in the long run too. This may not be as true for the visitors to Nevada because they usually are there fora short period of time and if they go on a little winning streak and leave then there is no losing that would generally accompany a winning burst.
 
NO   you will not achieve the SAME results in the long run, that is my WHOLE friggin point!In Nevada, the video poker you see with its paytables will in fact yield, IN THE LONG RUN, pretty much what it indicates it will yield given its PAYTABLE...that is the LAW in Nevada and that is the reality.    If a machine is a 98.5% game, or 99%, or 97%, based on the paytble for whatever game is chosen, THEN you will get long term results at or near that figure (plus or minus within acceptable deviations) in NEVADA.....remember too, for many years (1992 thru 2007) I played exclusively in NEVADA (Vegas-Reno) and from 1997ish thru 2006-2007 I kept very detailed records and analyzed my results thoroughly, and during this time I actually had a couple years of profit but for the most part I ran right where I was supposed to (within accepted ranges) for return%.....When I begane visiting AC in 2009, and for the first year and half or so, I fully expected that the machines I saw and chose to play would yield exactly what their paytables implied (which was mostly crappy paytables but there were just enough 99% plus games to make Videopoker in AC seemingly playable....)     It was only after my second year, 2011, in AC when I suspected something was really wrong with their games, that I thoroughly read the AC/NJ gaming regs and began asking a lot of questions, that I realized things are indeed VERY VERY different in AC for video poker players compared to Nevada.Regardless of how you read or interpret the NJ gaming regulations,  what only matters is HOW the NJ casinos interpret, and implement, those exact same rules, and how the NJ gaming comm (what's left of it) enforces those rules, and what I am now confident of is this:   Video Poker is a "SLOT" game as far as everyone is concerned in AC (casinos, management, AND the friggin gaming comm....again, what's left of it!)   The stated range for a slot in NJ is anywhere from 83% up to 99+%  (but always less than 100%, supposedly)......this means that, REGARDLESS of what the paytable and any given videopoker machine/game states, the casino CAN, if it chooses (and most of them do) set the game to return FAR FAR less than the paytable's implied return%.      They just do......Now do they do this on every Video poker game/machine?   I dont think so, but some casinos have MORE "slottified" VP games than others, so the challenge is to find that one (or handful) of the VP games that are still set the way we all assume they are set (i.e. the way a NEVADA game is set)........and again, it SEEMS  Borgata simply keeps its Video Poker they way we expect it to be kept, although this does not preclude them from possibly messing with a few/some/many of its games if and when the need arises (such as Borgata starts TANKING too in the revenue/profit area)....Rather than just disagree with me, go find out yourself, or ask some questions, make some calls, etc.      Seriously, at the minimum you are going to see just how weird and messed up things are in AC from the answers and responses (or lack thereof) you are apt to get, and DEFINITELY from the PLAY results you will get if you can log a decent number of hands over multiple trips.