How long would it take

[FAA]

I claim AC video poker is set to work like SLOTS----------------------------------------------------------------Ninety percent of it at least. If we navigate to that ten percent safe harbor, we should be reasonably satisfied. Granted those w mobility issues are much less inclined to pursue them.

[ko king]

I think one of the main reasons contributing to the idea that the games have changed is that most of today's players are playing games with a much higher variance than we had years ago. Few players have the time and bankroll to beat Super Times Pay, Multi-Strike, UltimateX, much less DDB.  I think if players stuck to the old time standard games they would be a lot better off.  Just my two cents... 



 
 
I do see people those games but I've never tried them, I play the same game I've always played. Not sure if single line DDB and TDB are included in what is considered "old time standard games" that's pretty much all I have ever played, I've played a few hands of Dueces Wild but I had no business doing that because I don't know how it's supposed to be played. Tried Jacks or Better and it bored me to death, I do see some players that play only that game so there must be something to it.
              Here's what drives me nuts Phil, I like to drink a few beers and relax while I play, I'm not to fond of crowds and I hate cigar smoke. My casino of choice was Harrah's in Tunica and when it closed down I went looking for a new place to play. The casino located the nearest to my location has plenty of vp to choose from and I do pretty well when I play there, the place is always crowded and sometimes it's tough to get a vp machine to play, they also charge for drinks and offer no real incentives to play there, no hotel either. What I do get and see plenty of is hand pays, the machines do put out, no question. What I cannot understand is why those same hits don't occur for me as often at the smaller market casino I prefer to play at. The pay tables are exactly the same and they have a good selection of vp to choose from, they also have my favorite beer on draft and it's cold as ice. I get plenty of free play there and free meals anytime I want, I can get a comped room at the hotel anytime I want. The only and I meen the only thing I can visably see is there is an obvious shortage of players, hardly anyone but me plays $1 denomination at max play, everytime I see someone playing they are slow playing nickles just to get free drinks. I've talked to the bartenders and they say I'm one of the few that ever play $1 denomination. Even with that said why should my personal results vary just because one place has more people playing because that's all I can find that's different?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]Even with that said why should my personal results vary just because one
place has more people playing because that's all I can find that's
different?[/quote]That's an interesting question.  Are you asking if more players equals more cycles?  If the hands are truly random, it shouldn't matter. You didn't say how long you have been playing at the new casino.   Personally, I have played at casinos where for some strange reason I seem to do well and a few where I can't buy a jackpot.  Who knows....

[notes1]

kk, i sympathize with your situation, but it is no different than what some others have experienced. many have also seen the cost of gambling rise, and it does not match the advertised paytables. it can drive you nuts. especially when you hear folks tell you nothing has changed, that all is right with the VP world.  nearly everyone on this forum, who feels as you (and i) do, that VP is different, has changed something about their play. play for less money, play a different venue, avoid places where results are bad, play less often/hours, etc, anything they can think of to be able to continue playing, or just quit. at some point, one has to face the reality of their situation.  if you are hoping to find some magic answer from someone here, forget it, there are no secret that is going to turn things around.

[FAA]

avoid places where results are bad------------------------------------------------My solution of choice. Hasta la vista. If in AC, bid seven of eight casinos farewell if so inclined.My advice: compromise beverage preference and patronize the superior results venue.

[alpax]

I will throw some numbers out in case it is valuable for anyone.

A. The most optimal chance of being a winner playing 9-6 TDB is at the range 3920-4080 rounds at 39.54%. Anything more than that, your chance of being a winner starts decreasing.

40,000 round figure (average cycle for Royal Flush) is arbitrary in TDB since 4 Aces with Kicker is just as good at about 1 in 14,100 rounds. Thus people should be worried if they do not get 4AsWithKicker after 20,000 rounds.

B. To describe the amount of dedication Mr. Dancer has to put into a high variance game like 9/6 DDB Ultimate X with variance of 92.

The Play for Prizes Gift Card promotion has a daily limit of $95,000 for $190 worth of prizes; thus the play has to be broken up into many weekdays to maximize the return. This promotion is not available on the weekends. Also on every Friday after 7pm, the best time frame to play as players get 5x drawing entries to the weekly cash drawings.

At $9 million coin in, it would have to be done in 95 separate days of $95k coin in. To put into perspective, it just takes $150,000 coin in each six months to get into the top level Hall of Famer tier at Club Palms. Not sure if there is a rumored Legend tier that is exists by invite only.

A daily loss of $30k would mean a session returned only 60% of the coin in! That is high variance games for you.

Ultimate X strategy approach is unique based on the multipliers that are laid out. Also it is multi hand so I would say a serious player will do 300-400 rounds an hour. It will take 950 rounds at $100 a round to get to the daily max.

LVA Articles with regards to Ultimate X Play

What Makes Ultimate X So Volatile?
What She Thinks Makes Sense

[case]

If you look at some of the mathematical charts for these games you will see there is a chance that anything can happen.  In fact, you have the same chance of never getting a royal in your lifetime as one every time you go...   This is an exaggeration, but it does demonstrate what is possible.  I believe there may be slight differences in the way the new machines work due to the speed of the chips or some other hardware influence, but I still believe the hands are random and there is nothing to be concerned about.  Reduced odds however are a real and pervasive problem.  How you adjust your play to compensate is up to you...  
(QUOTE)Why jackpots or quads bunch up is beyond me, but I suspect they always
did.  If I thought for a minute that the machines were not totally
random, I would find something else to do with my money.  I'm not
criticizing anyone who thinks otherwise, I'm just stating how I feel
about it.(QUOTE)Florida PhilExcellent replies!. I can tell you have played a lot of VP and you totally understand the game. Others would do well to read each of your replies on this thread. Thank you.

[notes1]

Excellent replies!. I can tell you have played a lot of VP and you totally understand the game. Others would do well to read each of your replies on this thread. Thank you.






  so, if someone who agrees with you, they are well informed, those who don't.....  are you aware the same poster you reference, has stated numerous times his belief that he gets more quads with less than max coins played. as he 'totally understands the game', i assume you agree with this position also.

[ko king]

kk, i sympathize with your situation, but it is no different than what some others have experienced. many have also seen the cost of gambling rise, and it does not match the advertised paytables. it can drive you nuts. especially when you hear folks tell you nothing has changed, that all is right with the VP world.

 
 
nearly everyone on this forum, who feels as you (and i) do, that VP is different, has changed something about their play. play for less money, play a different venue, avoid places where results are bad, play less often/hours, etc, anything they can think of to be able to continue playing, or just quit. at some point, one has to face the reality of their situation.
 
if you are hoping to find some magic answer from someone here, forget it, there are no secret that is going to turn things around.
 
 
Well I didn't really expect a magic answer to what ails me but some folks did provide some interesting and usefull information, many thanks to those that took the time to provide all the data. I'll probably go to my grave still cussing and discussing the game. I just can't help but believe that not all RNG's are exactly the same, I've experienced and seen way to much to accept that as fact. With all due respect to Bob, Phil, Case and anyone else who thinks all vp is created exactly the same until they come over here sit down and play 100K hands of the same game I'm playing I guess they are welcome to consider me "stuck on stupid". I've taken the time to read and study every single post made in this thread and both Vman and Alpax point out the 20K hand point as being a time of concern. I passed the 20K hand point a 4-5 sessions ago and I still haven't hit 1 single hand pay playing $1 TDB at max play every single time. Best I can tell though all that really meens is that I've been very unlucky at that casino. Who knows, the next time I go I could make it all back in one night.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=case]
Excellent replies!. I can tell you have played a lot of VP and you totally understand the game. Others would do well to read each of your replies on this thread. Thank you.


 
 
so, if someone who agrees with you, they are well informed, those who don't.....
 
are you aware the same poster you reference, has stated numerous times his belief that he gets more quads with less than max coins played. as he 'totally understands the game', i assume you agree with this position also.[/QUOTE]
 
Ouch, I guess I didn't read and study every single post as well as I thought I did.