HELLO BOB DANCER......

[DaBurglar]

Ok thanks Bob...I guess that's the best I can hope to get out of you...If I were you i would probably not want to delve much further into the specific issues I raise either....there's nothing for you to be gained (unless I abandon AC totally and venture forth to Vegas and attend your classes.  But I already know how to play perfectly the games I like to play so......) I agree that if someone does not like a place, they should not complain about and yet continue playing...but I maintain that is NOT what I have been doing.  I TRIED (even wanted0 to believe that AC is fair and upright, and that the horrible results I have gotten over the years were simply randomness and bad luck catching up with me (afterall, from the mid 1990s thru 2007 I had been fairly successful in Nevada before I moved back east)... my reasons for playing in AC went way way beyond the gambling and video poker, and encompass much that has nothing to do with casinos, even though casinos make it possible for me to keep going to AC.....I truly wanted to believe (and still do) NJ had fair and random video poker, so I kept at it, even when my suspicions (and results) became intolerably obvious.   But when the 55% non paying hands standard AVERAGE continues to check in at 65-70% (or worse) for many machines then something has to be up with the way the machines are set to operate.....you did not specifically address this point Bob, that I have definitely determined a number of machines with 99% paytables continuously spit out vastly different dud rates than they should, IF in fact the program is statistically normal and reliable.   It has nothing to do with my skill or bias or what not.....standard deviations is  standard deviation!  If a "normal" video poker game/machine is supposed to deal 55% DUDS/Non paying hands, and you see & experience (time after time) 67% duds, 71% duds, 64% duds, 70%, 66%, etc  with only a rare data point that is at or around the exepected "norm" of 55%, then you do not even need to delve into any in depth stat analysis to see that something is really really different about the machines you are playing (versus what we all come to EXPECT and assume is going on.....)Believe it or not, it is possible for people to master the finer points of video poker and still achieve lousy results, rigged or no rigged machines.   I do agree with you that, in the long run, if someone truly ONLY plays when and where they have the absolute BEST chance (or advantage), then obviously their long term results will be BETTER than those players who DO not do this.....that's obvious.But none of this is what I am truly burning to get an answer upon......I guess in your own way bob, you "politely" stated you dont have the answer to my issue/question(s)....It would be nice if you could divulge the names of these players in New Jersey you state are actually STILL achieving success at video poker......I'd like to learn or hear more about the specifics of this.At least you did not flat out tell me I am 100% wrong in my working theory that many of the video poker (aka "SLOT") machines in AC are in fact set to yield 83-85% returns REGARDLESS of what the paytables indicate.   You obviously do not believe this to be the case, but you do not state that such a thing is "IMPOSSIBLE", and since you have not (and dont plan to ) play there I will continue my quest for proof, one way or the other....PS -- for all the people reading this thread, I was secretly hoping that Bob did, or would, have some sort of super secret, incisive, intel or info that would have decisively proven to me that I am 100% WRONG and that everything I have seen and heard the past 5-6 years in AC was simply incorrect, that i simply have been outrageously unlucky and that is that......but alas, such is not the case.I am now more convinced than ever that in AC, video poker is Fried, there is almost NO real time or direct oversight by the gaming enforcement "department", the state is throwing AC to the wolves by venturing out into casinos in Newark and North Jersey, AC  has nothing left to lose so it might as well start cheating, and that the vast majority of players are too dumb or lazy to notice.I am totally through playing video Poker in AC, even at Borgata......from now on, it is only Black jack and real live POKER for me.....

[FAA]

double post

[FAA]

DB, it must really be an apathy issue if so many people can shrug off 70% dud rates on VP visit after visit. It's the proverbial eight hundred pound gorilla. I am totally through with boardwalk VP, beyond the free play attached to my trips. If poor marina sessions become prevalent, I suppose I will pull the plug there. I had many premium hands today, but low bankroll had me in min coin mode much of the session and I never truly cashed in!

[DaBurglar]

FAA I appreciate your posts......I do not doubt your results in AC, but have you (as much as you are able) Actually calculated your dud rate for the majority of your sessions?   believe it or not it is easier to do than most people realize, if you have several pieces of information that are readily attainable from the casino players club booths.Once you know your coin in, and once you know exactly how each casino calculates player "POINTS" for video poker, and provided you keep accurate information on starting and ending bankrolls, you can pretty much figure out anything you need to that pertains to your video poker play.   Including a pretty accurate "DUD" rate.....What you need to do each session is have a little notebook and simply keep record of the truly important/exceptional hits (like quads or better, or perhaps even full houses if you are truly dedicated and good at doing both things at once, playing and making little tick marks while playing without disrupting or distracting yourself....)  If you can do this simple stuff, then you can easily "back into" your TRUE DUD rate per each session.....it is important you do this accurately and honestly if you want to get to the truth of what is happening in AC.    We both intuitively know something is "UP" with many of the machines in many of the AC casinos, but as I have maintained and as should be equally obvious,  NOT every machine in EVERY AC casino is "juked" in such a way to yield sub 80% returns when the paytables indicate 97, 98 or 99+ % returns!!!    Afterall, there are still some people getting some good hands and winners in AC, just not anywhere near what should be happening.

[Tedlark]

I absolutely LOVED LOVED LOVED the last paragraph of Bob's post.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Tedlark]I absolutely LOVED LOVED LOVED the last paragraph of Bob's post..[/quote][quote=BobDancer]Finally, if you want my best advice, here it is. Take
notes. If you don't like it there, DON'T PLAY. Anyone who's silly enough
to play without the edge AND THEN COMPLAIN HE IS LOSING is not somebody
whose decisions I admire. If your favorite casino has tightened a game,
find a new favorite. Or a new game with a better pay schedule. People
who conclude that casinos have bad games and players MUST play them
either doesn't understand free choice or isn't capable of exercising
free choice.[/quote]Bob Dancer is a marketing genius!  He has a very interesting sales strategy that I wish I could duplicate in some other business. He sells folks the idea that by paying for his knowledge you can make a lot of money playing video poker while at the same time telling them they won't be able to do it.  This almost dares players to buy his products and services just to prove him wrong.  I don't see anything wrong with this as he is being completely honest, I just wish I had thought of it first. If you conclude like I
have that all video poker is a loser and the only way you can
make money long term is to work the comp system or get paid by casinos, doesn't it make sense to play as cheaply as
possible?  Paying for the trill of getting a jackpot is not a good
choice unless you're made out of money and don't mind throwing it away. 
That's why I advocate paying more attention to
limiting losses than maximizing wins. There are ways to enjoy playing video poker without worrying about rigged machines or losing a lot of money. All you have to do is quit trying to be Bob Dancer.  Don't worry, the casino
will survive.  There will always be enough fools out there to keep it
going. 

[DaBurglar]

Building off of Phil's post (which was priceless),  I really was hoping to get something more meaningful out of him....I have no idea why he feels the need to literally slam people or tell them what he thinks is wrong with them......why he feels the need to be (indeed go out of his way) to be so obnoxious.  It does not make sense.....who cares if he "ADMIRES" my decisions.....wtf does that have to do with what I originally posted????   How does a ...ahem...."PROFESSIONAL VIDEO POKER PLAYER"??  Acquire an ego that size????Seems to me, if someone spent most of their life in casinos (i.e. places of "FUN") and was having the success and results Bob claims, that person would be a lot happier and friendly than this guy lets on.....Unless..........eh, nevermind.Phil's right, his methods are tinged (nay, saturated) with Irony.......Shakespearean almost.I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally am not impressed with someone who can claim "I've never paid for a Buffet since 1987, nor have I paid for Soap or shampoo since then...."    If I spent as much time in casinos as he did, I might be a miserable Pr*ck too, I dunno.....BUT HEY, at least the one and only Blob Dancer deigned to get pissed off at me and feel obliged to tell me how absurd he thinks I am!    yesssssssss.......

[FloridaPhil]

There is no need to slam Bob Dancer.  He has figured out a way to profit from an industry that has invested billions into separating people from their money.    There is absolutely no way an average player can duplicate his results and he is the first person to tell you so.  It's not because he's smarter or more talented than you are.  It's because you don't have the same advantages he was and frankly you don't have the "balls".  Look, being willing to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars playing video poker is not something most of us would consider doing.  Bob does it on a daily basis because the comps and perks are huge at that level and he has the faith, confidence and inside knowledge to keep it working.  Unless you are willing to risk your entire life savings sitting in a casino, you need to accept the fact that playing video poker is going to cost you money.  The real question is how much are you going to pay?

[FAA]

have you (as much as you are able) actually calculated your dud rate for your sessions?  Easier than most people realize, if you have several pieces of information readily attainable from the casino players club booths. Once
you know your coin in, and exactly how each casino
calculates player "POINTS" for VP, and provided you keep
accurate information on starting and ending bankrolls, you can pretty
much figure out anything you need to that pertains to VP
play.   Including a pretty accurate "DUD" rate. Each session have a little notebook and record truly important/exceptional hits (like quads or better)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------DB, I always track starting and ending bankrolls. CET has a foolproof system. But I'd be foolish to continue there! I've given up on them and every other Boardwalk casino, so I stopped caring. If I determine widespread juking at a venue, I am gone baby gone. At Tropicana and Resorts, it was abysmal. A full house was reason to cartwheel. Quad free sessions were normal. If somebody can break down Borgata's system, I'd appreciate it. I guess it involves having to track my points at the kiosk before and after every session. In our high tech age, I actually photograph every quad. Very little time; they're right on schedule every one to one and a quarter hours, and I am super slow. Even when I lose, the loss rate is paltry by comparison. My pattern is very scattershot. I go anywhere on the one to five range depending on my gut. After the first quad, I short coin even more often. The next quad or two will be chump change. I'd probably have the same net results if I went max coin all the way through. But that requires confidence and double my bankroll.  I got saddled with so many one coin FHs on Sat, and my last hand one coin quad was pure anathema.

[FloridaPhil]

Here's the thing about short coin play.  Players only remember the really good and the really bad.  If you play all day at single coin and hit a short coin royal at the end, you are pissed and conclude that single coin play is a loser.   You don't take into consideration how much you saved by playing short coin.  If you play all day at max coins and hit the royal, you are happy even if you had to go into the hole to do it.   You need to understand why  you are playing video poker in the first place.  Most players are playing to experience the thrill of hitting jackpots.  Those players should play max coins and understand there is a cost of doing so.  If you are like me and enjoy the game strictly for entertainment,  playing Cheap Strategy is a winner no matter how you do the math.  This has nothing to do with some theory that short coin pays better.  It's because it costs less overall to play that way, you can play 3-4 times as many hands and when you do hit a max coin jackpot you can keep more of it.The worse possible scenario is to play max coins all day, lose you butt and switch to Cheap Strategy.  Even worse is to play Cheap all day and at the end throw your money away on a flurry of max coin pot shots.  If you do this you are guaranteed to be unhappy.  To play Cheap you must do it all the time and let the max coin jackpots happen on their own.  It's really very simple and it works.  Is it as much fun?  Depends upon your definition of fun. Can you make big money doing this?  Hell No!    Can you consistently come close to breaking even or making a small profit.   Yes....