This is BullSheeet

[olds442jetaway]

If your experience is anything like mine at Mohegan Sun which I think it is, try playing part of your next trip to A/C with 1 coin bet and you might be amazed at all of the premium hits. My theory and it is just that is the casinos justify the total numbers of good hands by allowing most of them to hit with 1 or 2 coins bet and they fall off dramatically with 5 or more bet. I also think this is why Fla Phil's cs record is so good. Most of the time, 1 coin is being played. I have kept rough records, but not exact for a year or more now on the above. If I could force myself to do it, I think I could play all day with one twenty on either job or deuces wild. Next time I have a bigger budget, I am going to try and play dollars at bet 1 for the entire session. I have seen others do this and they have made out fine too. The Royal penalty doesn't affect me since I very rarely hit them anyway. Edited to add. This post was directed mainly to vpnutnj.

[vpnutnj]

Ted,If I remember correctly you are playing in Vegas. This is not a Vegas issue. I have played a lot in Vegas and done rather good there as well. The laws in Vegas are different for vp than in AC. Games of skill vs. slot machines. I am not advocating that what is happening in AC is illegal, I am saying that the pay schedules are not an accurate representation of payback percentages. This could very well translate into a vp game that is worse than a regular slot machine payback given the field return on the floor for vp. The only thing I can tell you is that this has not only happened to us but to all of the players that I am familiar with. To suggest that we are all experiencing a losing streak at the same time for years in 2 different venues suggests a closed mind theorist.

[Tedlark]

vpnutnj you are not remembering correctly. I recently played in Las Vegas during a long weekend stay this past August but I reside in the Chicago area. I play at casinos in: Illinois; Indiana; Michigan; Ohio; Iowa; Missouri; Mississippi, and I've made trips to casinos in Minnesota as well. Oops, forgot Las Vegas.

As for you saying that video poker in Las Vegas is a game of skill vs. a slot machine in Atlantic City you really should take a hard look at the Atlantic City gaming regulations. You will see that video poker has a separate area in the regulations beside the section (the one DaBurglar mentions so often) stating that video poker is tied together with slot machines for the ease of accounting.

If you take a peak at the Nevada gaming regulations you will see that Nevada machines are allowed to have a LOWER payback percentage than the Atlantic City video poker machines can have.

I do not have a closed mind on this, I firmly believe that video poker machines everywhere in legalized casinos in the United States are on the up and up. Until the day comes where actual proof is presented and accepted as fact, I will go on believing there is nothing wrong.

There are quite a few people here who do find success playing video poker in Atlantic City. I will give you the same advice I've given DaBurglar: "If you think something is wrong with video poker in Atlantic City, don't play then."

Good luck to you either way.

[jetermacaw]

As a weekly visitor to AC I see people wining every week. I was witness to a gentleman winning $80,000 on one hand at Caesars. And guess what a lot of people lose every week too. How in the world can everyone win all the time? I have a friend who accompanied me this past Sunday, last year he hit 2 $4000 royals on 9/5 JOB at Caesars in a 12 hour period with $20 coin each session. He has not won since. Why because he plays stupid thinking lightning will strike again. He runs around the casino throwing $20 into different machines and pissing and moaning that he can't win. I tell him he had a once in a life time experience and should happy he won once.  

[DaBurglar]

Jeter,  just what EXACTLY are your AC numbers?  Profit, loss, dud rate and over what time frame?   I'm almost certan you do not actually really know what your numbers truly are, but I just want to read you say it......and your riend's example, the one with the two big royals, proves ZIP except he is (as you clearly state) acting like an idiot.I never said (god why does everyone pick and choose what suits them when analyzing my posts)  that I never saw people WIN in AC, nor have I said that I myself have never HIT ANYTHING in AC...I have and I did.      IT IS THE NUMBERS< the AVERAGES over the last 4-5 years> that tell me something is VERY VERY different in AC these days......and given the way things have transpired the last 5 plus years in AC, circumstantial evidence does not disprove my perception one iota, if anything it supports it.....I think AC video poker is exactly what the powers that be (casinos AND the remnants of the NJ gaming commission) want it to be, and THAT is why there has been no "BREAKING NEWS" flash with Kermit the frog standing outside a casino in AC with a microphone.....VPNUTNJ,  I am glad you have taken the time to post and you certainly have a much different set of experiences than myself, which I appreciate and find extremely interesting.   My "Strategy" (if you want to call it that) when it came to AC was to simply play the best return games (99% +) where I could find them and earn enough status / comps at the various AC casinos so that I received the perks I value most, mainly rooms, some food and a little free play.    I never earned the MAX status (like your SIGNATURE level at Trump) for any property, since I maintained my play at a certain level (25 cent denom) and NEVER exceeded it......but I always wondered about Signature Level status so you have educated me a little......also I find your stories of how things transpired (i.e.  the closing of the Trump Plaza, the intrigue and fallout, etc)....I had heard all the rumors and stories from other players and the employees I am close with, but your perspective yields more info and understanding.I find it telling that NO ONE here is even acknowledging the indisputable fact that there is virtually NO Gaming regulatory oversight or presence anymore in the remaining AC casinos.....that's just too problematic isn't it????   And for every person jeter (or anyone else can sight) that would claim "AC is FINE, same as always", I am positive there are 3 or 4 (or more) people who would claim otherwise.VPNUT ...... keep your eyes on the AC section of this forum, as I announce when I will be in AC (or vegas, coming up in December in between AC trips)......I too like you believe Vegas is indeed "the same as always" and there is a noticeable differnce in play results between Vegas and AC, mainly in the "dud" rate (again, AC dud rate consistently registers in the HIGH 60s and low 70s in many sessions, whereas Vegas usually is in the accepted range of 50% to 60%, as the average for a truly random video poker game should be 55%....)     This is really the ONLY issue, the number of dead or dud hands that AC machines spit out....as you yourself point out, you can still see a royal or quad or whatever in an AC video poker machine these days, of course;  it is just the amount of CRAP that accompanies the occasional good hand that is overwhelming, and obviously intentionally set!My email is club_da_burglar@yahoo.com    Please feel free to email me and we can coordinate possibly meeting during my next visit or two in AC......

[DaBurglar]

So when you were winning at a return better than other players you didn't think about it and thought it was the norm. But now that you may be losing at a return that you may not be used to, you think about it and something may be amiss? Vpnutnj, remember this is from a person who claims he  wins 80%   (4 out of 5 "sessions"...or is it "visits"?   "days of each trip"?  I dunno)   of the time ...... if this is true, then that means he could lose every dime he puts in any machine the next ten years, receive virtually nothing back, not even two pair, and he would/could just chalk it up to "MATH at work", lol.    

[olds442jetaway]

I am not sticking up for Ted or DB. I consider both my vp.com buddies as well as most others. I think most of us report our experiences as we have them or see them in other players. That said, if I could just learn to quit while ahead, I think I would end up winning 80% of the time too. IMO, quitting when up is one of the hardest things to do when we love to play so much. Sometimes you might be up only 5% of your bankroll for the day, but it is still much better than bank interest.

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar I have gone through losing streaks while playing video poker. I have been playing video poker since 1990, before that it was the typical slots and blackjack. Since 1990 I have had bad years but for the last 6 years the machines have been treating me pretty well. This is why I don't fret over losing because I consider video poker to be a long term adventure. My style of play is not to drop a 20 into a machine and then leave the machine because I failed to hit a royal; I invest some time in a machine.

Now as for your comment: "Indisputable fact that there is virtually NO Gaming regulatory oversight or presence anymore in the remaining AC Casinos."

WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? I dont want to hear from you that: Well I was talking to this jitney driver or, I was talking to this cocktail server." I want to see proof that these things are as you say they are. I would venture a guess that somewhere in the Gaming Regulations that govern Atlantic City casinos is language SPECIFYING things such as how many agents are in each casino, machine inspections, OVERSIGHT,etc.

I do chalk video poker play up to math. What do you chalk it up to?

[FAA]

I have a friend who accompanied me this past Sunday,
last year he hit 2 $4000 royals on 9/5 JOB at Caesars in a 12 hour
period with $20 coin each session. He has not won since. Why, because he
plays stupid thinking lightning will strike again. He runs around the
casino throwing $20 into different machines and pissing and moaning that
he can't win. I tell him he had a once in a life time experience and
should happy he won once.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Great anecdote, Jeter. ROTF. Pal, you've had your lightning in a bottle moment. It even happened twice in a small window! But that could be the end of your streak. A relative says that the worst thing that can happen is a gambler hitting a jackpot.

[FAA]

if I could just learn to quit while ahead, I would
end up winning 80% of the time too. IMO, quitting when up is one of the
hardest things to do when we love to play so much. Sometimes up only 5% of your bankroll for the day.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I do agree with your 80% figure. I'm very much okay with my first hour results. It's the following hours that create the doom and gloom with surplus erosion and even craters!