GOODBYE BOB DANCER.....

[DaBurglar]

I just realized something......In his now infamous (thanks to Ted mostly) post to me, Bob basically made the assertion that he "COULD" play in AC and succeed like he is in Vegas.........to this I say HOGWASH!This is my whole point, that the DUD rate of many AC machines is such that it does not literally MATTER what paytable one chooses, or what strategy (perfect, imperfect, impartial, semi-retarded,  single coin, single but looking, etc etc) one uses.......you are going to get a whole lot of NOTHING.    Ergo, Bob and his half million dollar bankroll would be evaporating faster than Donald Trumps lead in the polls.    It would in effect be a chance to say "Goodbye, Mr Dancer...."I propose Bob put on some mittens and a parka, and fly out the philly, take a bus to AC and spend a month searching out and then playingthe good machines (afterall we know they are there because I myself have been playing them) ....if he is ahead of the game, he wins and I will gladly announce on the Today show with Matt Laurer that Bob dancer was right,,,,,,Mkay?    When can I expect you out here Bob?

[BobDancer]

A month? Clearly you don't under understand what is involved. No wonder you don't think it can be done.Take Caesars properties as a start. To succeed there you need to have one of them as your primary property. Then you get the offers. It takes several months to change your primary property. They don't do it just because you ask them to.Further, I have to experiment and look at the theoreticals for EVERY machine where they take a bet of $25 and higher. That is, how much play yields how much ADT? I need to learn how much mailer you get for $5000 in ADT, and for $3000 and for $2000 etc. Which machines (I know of a few, not many) have an expected loss lower than the amount of the mailer?I'd need to learn the peculiarities of the Caesars AC system. Although I've been Seven Stars for several years, every location is slightly different. I need to learn those differences VERY WELL. If, for example, if I check out of a hotel room at 5 a.m. rather than 11 a.m., does it affect my ADT? How much do various things (such as going to the Diamond Lounge, picking up free play, picking up a gift, waving at the property from the freeway, downloading free play into my bank but not playing, etc.) affect ADT?I might be willing to talk to you to find out what you know, but clearly you don't know enough to exploit these things. You haven't given any indication that you are aware of how the process is done. I'd need much better sources of information than you. And it takes time to cultivate relationships with knowledgeable players. I'd need similar information for Borgata, Trop, and all other casinos still in AC. I'd need to learn how to double up on the offers so one trip can be used to pick up mailers for more than one place. I'd need to learn how much play is required to earn these mailers.I'd also want to learn similar things for the casinos near Philadelphia.It would take me significantly longer than a month to obtain this information. And I'm not willing to spend that time. The players who have spent that time do well there. The ones, like you, who don't understand the process, think it can't be done.If you pay attention to what was said here, you should be able to improve your own results. You want to maximize the return from play + mailers + other promos. I might very well end up playing a 97.5% game that has a theo of 6%. That's a game you wouldn't even consider. Figuring out all of these things takes a lot of time. Having you on the Today show is a silly thought. I don't know your real name (you could be a celebrity for all I know), but it's doubtful Today is willing to host an unknown somebody who talks about gambling.Also, if i spell out on this forum exactly which games have the incorrect theos, Caesars will be told and they will bring the theos into line. That would be a disaster to thoughtful players. I'm not interested in publishing that type of information.You might want to listen to the Gambling with an Edge radio show on Tuesday 9/29. It's Darryl McEwen, publisher of sevenstarsinsider.com  We'll be talking about how to do better within the Total Reward system. You can hear the show from 4-5 Pacific Time at vegasallnetradio.com, or starting Wednesday, the podcast of the show will be posted on bobdancer.com where you may listen to it for free.By the way, "dud rate" is not a measure used by any knowledgeable player.

[FAA]

Gambling with an Edge radio show on Tuesday 9/29. It's
Darryl McEwen of sevenstarsinsider.com  We'll be talking
about how to do better within the Total Reward system.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Great topic. So many patrons are either in the process of or have abandoned Total (Fractional) Rewards entirely, including myself. I never amassed much before the $50 coin in requirement, and AC VP results there were woeful to begin with.

[alpax]

Further, I have to experiment and look at the theoreticals for EVERY machine where they take a bet of $25 and higher. That is, how much play yields how much ADT? I need to learn how much mailer you get for $5000 in ADT, and for $3000 and for $2000 etc. Which machines (I know of a few, not many) have an expected loss lower than the amount of the mailer?


This is an useful advice that most may neglect. People may play until their bankroll for the day is all depleted or if they get a stop limit from hitting a jackpot. It can affect the future offers.

As this advice suggests, I now play a finite amount and do trial/error basis to see what my rating is and what comes in the mail for next month. Playing 3000 rounds does not make too much sense if 2500 rounds will give you the same offer, in that case the biggest benefit is that it makes the travel costs more worthwhile.

[MPD001]

A month? Clearly you don't under understand what is involved. No wonder you don't think it can be done.Take Caesars properties as a start. To succeed there you need to have one of them as your primary property. Then you get the offers. It takes several months to change your primary property. They don't do it just because you ask them to.Further, I have to experiment and look at the theoreticals for EVERY machine where they take a bet of $25 and higher. That is, how much play yields how much ADT? I need to learn how much mailer you get for $5000 in ADT, and for $3000 and for $2000 etc. Which machines (I know of a few, not many) have an expected loss lower than the amount of the mailer?I'd need to learn the peculiarities of the Caesars AC system. Although I've been Seven Stars for several years, every location is slightly different. I need to learn those differences VERY WELL. If, for example, if I check out of a hotel room at 5 a.m. rather than 11 a.m., does it affect my ADT? How much do various things (such as going to the Diamond Lounge, picking up free play, picking up a gift, waving at the property from the freeway, downloading free play into my bank but not playing, etc.) affect ADT?I might be willing to talk to you to find out what you know, but clearly you don't know enough to exploit these things. You haven't given any indication that you are aware of how the process is done. I'd need much better sources of information than you. And it takes time to cultivate relationships with knowledgeable players. I'd need similar information for Borgata, Trop, and all other casinos still in AC. I'd need to learn how to double up on the offers so one trip can be used to pick up mailers for more than one place. I'd need to learn how much play is required to earn these mailers.I'd also want to learn similar things for the casinos near Philadelphia.It would take me significantly longer than a month to obtain this information. And I'm not willing to spend that time. The players who have spent that time do well there. The ones, like you, who don't understand the process, think it can't be done.If you pay attention to what was said here, you should be able to improve your own results. You want to maximize the return from play + mailers + other promos. I might very well end up playing a 97.5% game that has a theo of 6%. That's a game you wouldn't even consider. Figuring out all of these things takes a lot of time. Having you on the Today show is a silly thought. I don't know your real name (you could be a celebrity for all I know), but it's doubtful Today is willing to host an unknown somebody who talks about gambling.Also, if i spell out on this forum exactly which games have the incorrect theos, Caesars will be told and they will bring the theos into line. That would be a disaster to thoughtful players. I'm not interested in publishing that type of information.

Some nice info here, Bob. I would be willing to bet that a lot of regular casino players, such as those playing within the CET properties, do not even realize that player evaluations are going on beyond just Tier Level and Rewards Credits. These evaluations affect future offers and comps.

[DaBurglar]

You know,  THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF RESPONSE I was hoping to get for my first post in the other thread!!!!    In terms of the tone, structure, specifics etc!!!Even though once again you managed to point out I know nothing, I am not being sarcastic or silly when I say.......THANKS BOB!!   Seriously,  you probably taught me more in this post than in all the others combined......Obviously you know I was only being half serious in my first post in THIS thread, about you coming out here, but if you did visit I would be thrilled.   Clearly Bob, you are correct and I freely admit..... I do NOT know all the intricacies of  your specific methodology and practice (isn't this what you charge people for anyway?   and even with that, you admit you still retain tidbits of vital info only for yourself!)   But I am also not nearly as clueless or ignorant  about what you do as you seem to think.....I do indeed  "have a clue"  (call it a pretty good "inkling") of what you do and what is involved, and I am familiar with the terminology and what things mean (i.e.  definition of ADT, etc etc,)   I said "a month"  arbitrarily, but I did ASSUME you already knew much of the info and things you state you'd need to research and identify if you came out here.....I wrongly assumed that you, being THEEE Bob Dancer had such info at your fingertips or on speed dial from your network of contacts and friends (like all these people you say you know out here on the east coast/AC who are doing what you do in Vegas.)    I would ask you not to belittle my use of the term "dud rate"  lol   I know you know what I mean and what I am talking about.....I often use the term "non paying hand" interchangeable with DUD rate...."Dud" is simply shorter and easier to use/type.What terminology would you prefer, as a professional?     And what do you make of the fact that I have (whether you wish to believe me or not)  observed a sustained "DUD" rate far in excess of the expected 55% frequency of zero/non paying hands a statistically normal RNG would spit out?    Can you just HUMOR those of us who have seen this in AC casinos and AC machines for a moment.....what would happen to you and your system if, for a sustained length of time, you started experiencing "DUD" rates AVERAGING around 70%????This is really the ONLY thing (only crucial issue) I care about insofar as AC video poker is concerned......in case you are not aware, allow me to remind (or inform you in case you did not know):The past year I have dramatically cut back the amount of play in video poker I do in AC;I really did limit my play (as a serious non-professional VP player) in the past to machines with the most favorable paytables, or a progressive machine that reached a certain level in the jackpot.    I never played the many horrible paytables that populate many AC casinos.I DO know the correct plays/hold (i.e. PERFECT PLAY)  for the games I primarily preferred, namely JOB, BP, DB and DDB....I have not yet mastered but I am working on JOKER POKER.You also by now should know my pedigree and that I am highly teachable, and I am not stretching when I say that....if it were my desire to live that type of life and I felt I could derive satisfaction and enjoyment from it, and I allotted the required Bankroll needed and was taught CORRECTLY and UNCONDITIONALLY by someone (such as you)...I am confident that I could do what you do....that is neither a boast or challenge, it is just to say I am not INTIMIDATED by any of this (or you even.....)   Indeed, why would or should anyone?    But clearly this is NOT (what you do) for everyone (I KNOW I have said that in the past)....including me.....I just do not get that much internal life satisfaction or utility from being in and around casinos and playing video poker.     I love games (hey if you ever want to play chess, or live poker, for money, I'm there!), and video poker has its place in my heart....SO clue me in on the DUD rate issue, and if it helps for me to apologize for insulting you, I will do so.....I got carried away with the spirit of the moment, and since I obviously do not know you at all, any reasonable person would not put any stock in my opinion of you, so calling you anything ( good or bad) is meaningless, and I never meant anything by it beyond the typical yuk yuk yuk we all get from reading crap on forums like this,

[BobDancer]

Post unable to migrate

[FAA]

(check out the vpFREE forum. MUCH more useful information
is presented there than here. Although they don't have DB and FP to
start five new threads a week, they have their own trolls over there.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Cool. I was tiring of these trolls anyway!

[wildman49]

Post unable to migrate

[Carcounter]

Ok, probably not the correct thread to post this, but here goes. To add some fuel to DaBurglars fire, I went to Caesars AC yesterday-against my better judgment, after cancelling golf due to the weather. I have not played there for about 5 years, since they removed the All Americans and the JOB progressive in the old Park Place Poker area. As I have said before, no reason to go to a boardwalk casino for me, unless they have superior paytables, which in general they don't. However Caesars has a bank of .25 Double Joker progressives with a royal rest at $2,000. Base game is 99.9% and usually over 100%. Not yesterday. Lost $500 very quickly, with no premium hands, unless you consider 2 SF's with a 125 coin payout. Incredible number of garbage, AKA "dud" as DB calls them hands. Well beyond anything I have seen in my 20 years of playing. Almost seems surreal. Kept thinking things will turn around any minute in a big way, but nope. Promise I will not be back to Caesars, or any other CET property in a long time.