Video Poker is a Beatable Game

[pokerforme]

Yea Tedlark me too, just too much work at something I enjoy...it would become a giant grind. That's the way online poker became to me, I loved it for the first 2 years or so then it was about the grind---took the fun out of it.

I am sure Bob has more than a daily planner--he probable has to be here at 8am, here at 945am, here at 1pm, here at 445pm on and on 24/7 to make it truly worth while. Props to him, that's a lot of work!

[DaBurglar]

Pokerforme, that is a great post indeed, and I agree with MOST of what you said (except the part about Bob LOSING in the short term.......I highly doubt he loses during the course of a YEAR, IF everything else he says and does is true.    At his level of play, losing over the course of a entire year (or years)   would probably be pretty tough both personally and professionally.....of course, we'd need specifics, which as he states we will never get.I have never ever disputed the actual info about VIDEO POKER in and of itself Bob shares, when he actually shares something that is truly useful or profound and not something which is obvious to those of us who (like BOB) happen to be intelligent and can use and apply what we know, or who can figure things out ourselves (and sorry to burst certain people's bubble, but video poker is NOT even remotely difficult or complex.....it has more to do with endurance, memorization, simple logic and organizing.)Hence I do dispute ( a little anyway )  the amount of "awe" that some people might hold for someone like BOB, or even what Bob himself expresses for what he does (go back and read the latest post from Bob above and notice how often/how many times he attributes what he does to "exceptional intelligence" and how people who seemingly CANNOT do what he does successfully must not be very intelligent....lol.....I've rarely seen someone so redundantly adroit at telling people "I'm smarter than all of you neeener neener")......I get it a little bit, self promotion and patting oneself on the back may indeed be part of what Bob does and is an essential element to the  "SALES & MARKETING" aspect of his business, and to his  "persona" within the gambling industry.    But for crying out loud, its not like he is someone like Werner Heisenberg or Kurt Godel!   It is not like he spends his day working in a Lab developing the next drug to help lower cholesterol or erectile dysfunction!    It isn't like a person, instead of a basic grasp of simple arithmetic and probability, needs a PhD in "Combinatorial Mathematics" (Combinatorics) or "Finite (Discreet) Mathematics" (of which Probability is but one branch)........!!!!!     If you are VERY good at Book keeping and BUSYWORK, those types of skills and attributes, you are halfway to being able to do what Bob does...... Sure, A high IQ helps as it does with ANY endeavor in life, but to actually do what Bob does, an Average IQ is more than sufficient.The point is there is nothing "SPECIAL" about any of this, or Bob.    Everything he does can be taught or learned and if practiced and applied with the endurance and conscientiousness mentioned above, you can do it.     Or so Bob himself says (and teaches).......As we covered before, Bob lives a certain type of LIFE, or lifestyle......it involves CHOICES and actually, actively WANTING to do what he does for a living;   You must WANT to live in and around casinos, eat casino food, breathe casino air (*ack ack* cough), deal with Casino employees and patrons alike on a daily basis  ...... and not have any problem negotiating your way in and around casino slot clubs and dealing with casino Hosts and management types in a way that is subtle enough yet firm enough that you always act in your own best interest without compromising yourself with any particular casino.    You cannot DRINK especially while playing......(and even that word, "playing" video poker.....it no longer becomes "PLAY")   You must find ways to avoid the pit falls of typical CASINO LIFE, namely becoming overweight,out of shape and sickly.....I don't know exactly what Bob does (I am sure he posted about before But I admit I paid scant attention to THAT aspect of his "lifestyle") but I am sure he finds the time to exercise and eat well enough (hey every casino Buffet has massive SALAD & Veggie offerings)....at least I hope he does.      It is not at all "FUN AND GAMES" like the rest of us experience when visiting Vegas or our favorite gaming destination!

[DaBurglar]

pokerforme you hit the nail on the head. Bob Dancer has given us a peek at a few pages out of his playbook and a small glimpse at just what constitutes getting a +ev.

To some here, the information Bob revealed just isn't good enough. They want more information, they want more secrets. Bob is very good at what he does and I imagine it is quite a grind, one that I don't wish to switch careers for right at this time in my life. If people want to take the time and do the legwork that Bob does, the research that Bob does, the calendar dates circled for optimum play days, being at a casino at just the right time, they too can possibly be as good at it as Bob Dancer is.

But they don't. It's way easier to slam him for the way he calculates and determines ev of a game. It's way harder to invest the money that it takes that Bob Dancer has invested. Bob Dancer has his critics and his fans, FP has his critics and his fans. I do not subscribe to either of their play styles but I wish them, and everyone here who plays video poker, luck when they play. I defy you (yet again) to show exactly where ANYONE here "slammed" Bob for the "way" he calculates and determines EV........of course, by ANYONE I mean ME because your ridiculously veiled remarks (as usual) ONLY apply to ME.....and if you mean my comments about Buffets and Hoodies and Key chains and free t-shirts, that was NOT "slamming" how EV is calculated or determined.......  "EV" is an abstract esoteric concept......I am sure when i made my point I was talking in the context of making a living earning such things as free coffee makers, t-shirts and such.    Again your penchant for distortion is annoying......AND newsflash Ted....if YOU (or anyone including MYSELF)  advertises and represents themselves as a successful "Expert" or representative of some type of profession, where the single most relevant and important MEASUREMENT of success (and the whole BASIS for your claims and advertising) is MONEY, then you need to be prepared at some point and at some level to be able to SHOW people that what you say IS INDEED TRUE.   The only way to do that which is reliable and unambiguous is by SHOWING people the goods....until or unless you do that, you cannot be surprised, not can you gripe about people being doubtful or skeptical or even just asking healthy circumspect questions about YOU, your claims, Your system and what you are selling.   Now there is no way you can dispute the logic and reasonableness of what I just said.....Phil's entire point that Bob makes a high percentage of his money from NON Video Poker playing activity (something that is not available and does not apply to everyone else) is extremely relevant in my opinion, and likewise Phil's view that it seems unlikely that Bob can and does make a significant amount of money by video poker ALONE, straight up........before counting all the earned slot play and free play and cashback and......and....and etc etc etc.   Oh sure, I agree, that stuff all counts and is relevant in the bottom line calculation....but again if a consistent profit cannot be attained simply playing playing the games themselves, then that needs to be clearly acknowledged up front.

[onemoretry]

[   Oh sure, I agree, that stuff all counts and is relevant in the bottom line calculation....but again if a consistent profit cannot be attained simply playing playing the games themselves, then that needs to be clearly acknowledged up front.
I believe Bob has, in fact, acknowledged that fact. He has clearly stated that the games he plays are sub 100%.

[pokerforme]

I really don't care its not a +100% game on its own. Winning at the game would simple be finishing ahead of 100% period. DaBurglar I just don't get what you are trying to prove with that line at the end besides the fact you like to argue endlessly. Facts are pretty simple, maybe this explains why you cant break even?

[daily_double]

and likewise Phil's view that it seems unlikely that Bob can and does make a significant amount of money by video poker ALONE, straight up........before counting all the earned slot play and free play and cashback and......and....and etc etc etc.   Oh sure, I agree, that stuff all counts and is relevant in the bottom line calculation....but again if a consistent profit cannot be attained simply playing playing the games themselves, then that needs to be clearly acknowledged up front.

It is acknowledged, in the paytables. I do not understand why guys would even care what Bob makes. I am not a shill for Bob, but his writing here and products are the only things that have helped me improve. There are no other reputable guys out there, really. That's all I am interested in, improving myself. I hope he doesn't sue me, but I am going to quote a line from his last book.

" A basic principle in gambling for profit is that in order to be a net winner , you MUST play games in which you have the advantage. That is, the game itself multiplied by your accuracy level, plus the slot club, plus the promotions must exceed 100%. If this isn't the case, you may well win this weekend, but you won't win over time. "

And DB, not trying to instigate anything, but to your point above, isn't it obvious you can't win if you play less than 100% paytables by themselves ? Do people need to be told everything these days ? I guess they do, I just thought it was obvious. He also states in the book, " For most people though, I suggest you find the game you enjoy the most that returns greater than 98%. You won't get burned too badly and the casino complimentaries will offset much of your loss. It's up to you to decide how serious you are about winning. "

There is a LOT of great information in that book. A lot of quotes I would like to make from that book that pertain to the issues going on here lately. He explains how to figure everything out. For those that don't have it, I suggest it. Its a must read, especially if you have his software. For those that do have it, maybe its time to look it over again. It will only help

[alpax]

Well stated by daily_double, pokerforme, and Ted. All those points are as good as the post made by DAAnMAAn on Difference between a pro and recreational gambler

I strongly believe Mr. Dancer is capable of winning in Florida, North Carolina, Tunica, and Atlantic City, although I feel it won't be much to be make it worth his while.

[QUOTE]
There are over-100% opportunities in many jurisdictions other than Nevada --- if you limit yourself to playing when the best promotions occur and don't insist on such things as "it must be for quarters (or any other denomination), it must be DDB, it must be Triple Play or Five Play, it must be available whenever you show up, and it must be obvious to figure out."
[/QUOTE]

[faygo]

DD,

[EDC1977]

@DailyDouble: Bravo. I couldn't have worded it any better.

[Carcounter]

Haven't read the whole thread, just got home from Disney. 7 days with kids/ grandkids , relaxing , watching football. Response to initial question #2, I know I could make a few bucks playing full time, but have a successful engineering business and that doesn't make sense. I think most pros are smart enough that they would do better in another profession, but feel that I have the best of both worlds. Like to play VP, know where to find the best pay tables, but play with spare cash and don't take VP to seriously. Good luck to everyone on the board.