Video Poker is a Beatable Game

[BobDancer]

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[DaBurglar]

I think things have been greatly distorted (on ALL sides of this issue, as with most EVERY issue that gets argued around here.)   I think people have lost sight of what BOB truly does, and likewise I think Bob's summation of Florida Phil is a little too harsh, but his is entitled to his opinion and perception.I myself KNOW at least three TRUE Professional gamblers (and NO, Bob dancer does not count as one of them just because we post on the same forum).....I say this because I have known them LONG enough and have seen enough of their "work" to know they are successful and not making it up.   One of them is a Horse Handicapper, which if you want to get into BYZANTINE methodology, there's your ticket....I personally hate Horse Racing and would never deign to do that for a living.   The guy lives well (last I heard, it has been two years since we spoke) but is by no means "WEALTHY"......I am 100% certain I am better off than he is in that area.The other two guys I know who gamble professionally are both into a variety of game, but both play Live Poker at least as much as they play other games.   One favors Blackjack, SPORTS BETTING & craps along with Poker ...... the other guy is into Craps and Baccarat AND VIDEO POKER.    They are both highly successful at what they do and are probably better off (financially at least) than myself, but there has been a cost in both their lives.  Both are divorced, both have kids that are (or have been) in trouble in a variety of areas (but in fairness, the guy who plays Video Poker also has a kid who is in Med school and one who is a Teacher, so who knows.)    The Guy who plays Blackjack, years ago did go bust before he learned how to properly manage money.  Incidentally, I do NOT know (or KNOW OF) any FEMALE professional Gamblers, outside of a few alleged "PRO POKER PLAYERS" who happen to be female.....I wonder how many "chicks" Bob Dancer knows who do what he does???My point is this.  I myself have never said it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to Gamble professionally (Including Video Poker)......I do however, believe (as Bob states) Most people cannot or do not want to do this the proper, correct way.   Most people who try, do it for the wrong reasons and in the wrong manner (i.e.  They want INSTANT riches and they want to KEEP laying it on the line week after week without ever experiencing ANY downswing....a totally UNREASONABLE and IMPOSSIBLE set of expectations that is rooted in LAZINESS and GREED!!)    It does NOT require any special or exceptional intelligence, it requires other qualities (like patience, rational unemotional decision making, and an absence of greed, which sadly, most people fail to qualify for...)Video Poker, in and of itself, HAS become much harder and more challenging, but not impossible.   My own personal issues with Video Poker have ONLY to do with the way Atlantic City casinos seem to be operating it.....and given the fact I live closer to AC than Vegas, and given the fact I like all other aspects of AC/the Boardwalk/the Ocean/New York & New Jersey, I continue to TRY to succeed as a casual gambler who only wants to earn enough comps, and keep losses in the "entertainment" range.    Playing Video Poker (or any other game) full time for the purpose of making a actual viable "living" just does not appeal to me nor gives me enough "Satisfaction" in life to do it......besides, as Bob has mentioned many times, a lot of what HE has to do to succeed at what he does has NOTHING to do with actually playing video poker but involved a lot of keeping track of the ever changing scene of slot club benefits, promotions, contests, comp rates etc etc etc (in other words, what a lot of people might call "Busy work" or even "GRUNT work".)   Most people that I know SUCK at keeping track of such detailed info and most are too lazy.     That's really what a lot of this argument is all about.....a lot of people equate Gambling with SLOTH, hence they approach it with a "slothy" attitude, and expect it to be as easy as pressing the button....it it absolutely NOT like that at all."Luck" does play a certain role in this (as it does with ALL of life' endeavors and pursuits), but truly, in terms of being a Success 0r Fail factor, it is really just the absence of BAD luck that a player needs to succeed (i.e. they just need to avoid things like BAD health or getting in accident or, in the case of someone like Doris, having a house fall out of the sky onto them.)  To succeed at Gambling you do NOT necessarily need to get regular infusions of so-called "GOOD LUCK" (although it definitely helps).....when you GAMBLE with an edge like BOB (and my three acquaintances), you are in essence making your own luck and over the long haul you will achieve some positive return.....but again, it will not make you "fabulously wealthy."     It goes without saying, to become a Professional Gambler, you pretty much need to BEGIN with a lifestyle AND a bankroll that allows you to be able to survive in it FOR THE LONG HAUL.   Defining "The Long Haul" of course is a highly challenging and subjective process and may be the single most volatile FACTOR in this whole discussion.....My own personal means of making money ("a living") are far greater and more successful than gambling right now.    And I feel that the actual Legit work I do making money benefits both MYSELF and Society far more than if I spent all my time in a casino.   But that is JUST ME and MY OWN PERSONAL perception and opinion and philosophy.....it has nothing to do, nor anything against, OTHER PEOPLE and what they choose to do.I think any (and probably ALL) animosity or ill will, or even just plain defensiveness on the part of either Phil or BOB, stems from the comment made (by whom I forget) that Gambling for a living might be "Dishonorable", or whatever terminology or words were utilized......this was probably ill conceived and not delivered properly (or interpreted properly).....GAMBLING irresponsibly, or for the wrong reasons, indeed might be dishonorable (as well as morally wrong and even ILLEGAL if someone is stealing or committing fraud to support the Gambling, etc), but Gambling for a LIVING whereby someone TRULY is managing their bankroll, is TRULY employing sound and correct methodology and strategy, and is LIVING all other areas and aspects of their life in a responsible law abiding fashion, then I see NOTHING that is Dishonorable.Oh sure, if someone wants to compare Bob Dancer to Mother Theresa (or the average physician in Doctors without Borders) you might have a case of one person being "More beneficial to society", but hey, if you compare ANYONE in society to Mother Theresa (starting with YOURSELF) then we all come up short.....what's the point in any of that?      For all we know, Bob could be donating regular to a wide variety of charities, as could Phil.......I think we all best should avoid venturing anywhere NEAR topics or debates involving  the "MORALITY" of what we do in life......if we did, we ALL would come up short and we ALL would have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer (or is anyone here prepared to argue ignorance, or INNOCENCE, when it comes to the FACT that places like VEGAS are saturated with Prostitutes, Drugs and a wide variety of other criminal activity which goes hand in hand with Casinos and Gambling?   Individually we all may AVOID such things, but collectively we all help perpetuate this activity by our continued patronage of Vegas and similar places......including AC!    For all my love of the Ocean and the Boardwalk and the fact that AC is handicap accessible,  it is unavoidable that my patronage of AC helps perpetuate the seedier elements there as well.....it could be something as innocuous as me giving 5 bucks to a panhandler, which is something I usually do....if he turns around and buys Crack or Methamphetamine or Heroin, I have contributed to the problem.) 

[FloridaPhil]

My problem is I have too much energy and I tend to hang on to my thoughts too long.  This usually bores people and I often end up putting my foot in my mouth much too often.  I have never seen a 100% video poker game in my life.  The only thing I know about professional gamblers is what I imagine in my mind.   My imagination does not allow me to consider the thought of my daughter marrying a professional gambler, which is how this discussion started in the first place.  Personally, I think long term winning at video poker is a fantasy.  How anyone could survive in such a harsh and mind numbing environment has me totally baffled.  Maybe if I lived in Vegas I would understand this better.  Let's just say that I don't know what I'm talking about and leave it at that. 

[FAA]

I have never seen a 100% video poker game in my life.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Ditto. I will settle for the understated charm of AC and 99.54% Off Boardwalk JOB for the near future. 

[rascal]

It takes a truly unique person to try to make a living in casinos. Yes, there is a lot of discipline required and it can't hurt to be mathematically oriented, as the gent who calls himself "Bob Dancer" is. But, unfortunately, it also requires a willingness to endure social isolation and unhealthy environments for extended periods of time. And -- most significantly in my opinion --- it also requires a conscious decision to place video poker above family and personal relationships. "Bob" would be the first to agree with this, if he's being honest. As he has stated before, his long-term marriage did not survive for multiple reasons, but largely because his then-wife could not subject herself to the smoking environment of casinos, and "Bob" was unwilling to change his line of work for her. This is not, by the way, a judgement on my part, but rather a listing of the seldom-considered sacrifices that one must make to spend the time in the casinos necessary to make money at video poker. "Bob" chooses that way of life --- more power to him. Others among us perhaps place a higher value on health and relationships, and thus, more power to us. Each to his own, and full respect for our life choices.

[FAA]

it is unavoidable that my patronage of AC helps perpetuate the seedier
elements there as well. It could be something as innocuous as me
giving 5 bucks to a panhandler, which I usually do. If he
turns around and buys Crack or Methamphetamine or Heroin, I have
contributed to the problem.) 








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bad example; entirely avoidable. Talk about dramatic license.

[Tedlark]

Out of respect to Bob Dancer I self-edited my post.It originally contained slamming comments directed to DaBurglar.

[wildman49]

Post unable to migrate

[onemoretry]

Or to say with all things included like Free play,

"Free play" is not free. It is earned, and its value is a legitimate part of the calculated game return - just as is cash back, bounce back, etc.

[wildman49]

"Free play" is not free. It is earned, and its value is a legitimate part of the calculated game return - just as is cash back, bounce back, etc.I can agree with that no problem.What about drawings? You get drawn for $500 free play? Is that also a legit form of poker calculating?See to take out any and all free play is hard to do, I am sure some who track there play know both with and without free play, say a pro. For most of us we go in say with $400 cash, say have $50 free play and sit down to play. Now we play 4 hours and cash out $450.Now are we up $50 for the day or even? I say up $50 since its $50 more then I walked in with. Now that will skew the "real" return of the game over a years play.