The Blind Men and the Elephant

[FloridaPhil]

My wife and I just returned from a week long trip to the Reno/Tahoe area.   This trip reminded me of the old story of a group of blind men attempting to describe an elephant.Except for a few exceptions, our recent video poker experience has been limited to casinos with odds in the 95-98% range.  To protect ourselves from the inevitable losses, we devised all kinds of schemes in an attempt to survive on these long VP marathons.  What we experienced at the Peppermill was mind blowing and definitely changed our feelings about the possibility of a player winning long term at video poker.  I won't go into it here, but the Peppermill is video poker heaven.  Every machine has NSU Deuces (99.728%) in nickels and up.  Not only that, but these machines are much more lively than we have ever seen before.  The frequency of so called "dud hands" was much less and it seemed like you could play for hours on a single $20.  Now, this is how video poker should be!I see now how an exceptional player like Bob Dancer with a big bankroll and access to high roller comps and special promotions should have little trouble making a living at this game.  I apologize for my ignorance.  I have never seen a Video Poker elephant before last week and it's an awesome experience.  

[Tedlark]

I'm glad you and your wife had some fun Phil, I've seen a few purple elephants in my time but sadly no video poker elephants.

[olds442jetaway]

About ten years ago, the Mrs. and I found nickel machines like that at a downtown casino in Aruba. They allowed multiple nickels to be bet per hand. If I remember from one to a hundred. They were 9/6 job as well. The Martingale clone system worked great on them and the Mrs. and I killed them one afternoon. After awhile playing and winning including both of us hitting a couple of Royals, we found suits standing in back of us watching our every move. Waitresses seemed to disappear from our area and we were really missing the Aruba Arriba cocktails. We packed it in after awhile and we scooped up pounds of nickels out of the tray. We got just a little uncomfortable feeling to say the least. The following year when we returned, those machines were gone. They were old, in sad shape, etc. but boy did they pay off. I have never experienced anything like it since. Not even close. Glad you guys had a great anniversary celebration and some vp playing just like the good old days.

[FloridaPhil]

I'm not into conspiracies, but it sure does get you thinking.  All the machines in Reno seem to be this way.  Sure you can lose, but the hands are just better.  It's like the East Coast machines are on a different program.   This is the first time we have ever had a chance to play near 100% games for very long.  Once you play them, you never want to go back.

[olds442jetaway]

Speaking of getting you thinking, I wonder if those machines are class 2 or 3. My guess is class 3 if they are in non Native American Casinos, but those who play out there regularly or even Vman probably know. Just curious. You are right sure you can lose. I think the casinos count on people pumping all of their winnings back in until they lose. The smart players don't do that and that is why I think this type of machine vanished from the East. Mohegan Sun had them the first year they opened and they allowed up to 80 units bet on a one line game. They also had machines that were 2 cent with not so good odds that allowed you to bet up to 100 units. I killed both of those years ago and they were yanked in short order. The 2 cent machines also had one eyed jacks. I know of no casino in the East still offering that game. Very streaky and extremely difficult strategy to master, but a great game to play with lots of nice big hits. Pretty much anything good to play long term vanished in the East in late summer of 2011 including reduced or no comps offered on any 99% vp game. That is how my points went from 8k down to just 300 where they are now. If anything, I only use my points now for a little gas and security for a room deposit. The grand ol days of vp are gone as far as I can tell.

[FloridaPhil]

I'm sure all the machines we play are class III machines.   What we think we are seeing is the effect that better odds have on the number of hands you can play with the same money.  We are currently reevaluating our video poker budget and where we play.  No more free trips to casinos with lousy odds and I'm going to stop my weekly trips to Tampa and drive to Hollywood once a month.  I'm only going to play at casinos with a minimum of Airport Deuces from now on.  Actually, the games on this website are free with 100% payback....  

[pokerforme]

I am not so sure its the odds alone...I have played at a native casino in Northern California that has a bank of 99.3%+ quarter games and lost like crazy days on end knowing it to be the best play in the casino only to walk a few rows over and play 98.5% and lessor games and do well to break even right on the numbers or better. There IS something to it, I talked to many people and they experienced the same so they avoid that bank of machines now.

[case]

Well said Phil. I was pretty sure you would like Peppermill. It is a beautiful property with good VP pay tables. You are right it will be hard to enjoy Tampa and the tight games.

We did it opposite of you. We had been to Vegas many, many times and then one winter while staying in Florida we went to Tampa to gamble. Ouch....We did not return.

However depending on where you live you either play the games given or not.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=pokerforme]There IS something to it, I talked to many people and they experienced the same so they avoid that bank of machines now.[/quote]I don't understand it either.  We play all over the Southeast and in some places the machines seem to be in lock down.  It's not just one or two visits either.   The Beau Rivage in Biloxi is a good example.  The VP odds are the lowest in the country, but that's only the tip of the iceberg.  It's like the quad deuces and royals are being intentionally programmed out.  I know some people will say we're imagining things, but our results over the last few years were so bad we gave up trying.   Maybe they got their machines from AC? 

[olds442jetaway]

I'm sure they picked up a couple in Ct. along the way too. . I should shoot a pic of a bank of 99% machines that stay empty at peak times and a line of people waiting to play another bank of 95% games.