Wonder If?

[ko king]

[QUOTE=onemoretry] [QUOTE=FloridaPhil]This wouldn't be illegal as long as they only manipulated the cards displayed and not the actual payout. What do you think?
In some jurisdictions it is, in fact, illegal. Here is a quote from a gaming regulation: "After the selection of game outcome the gaming equipment must not make a variable secondary decision which affects the result shown to a player. For example, the RNG chooses an outcome that the game will lose. The game must not substitute a particular type of loss to show to the player". [/QUOTE]

Not just some. Many jurisdictions. Any jurisdiction where paytables and strategy matter.

And 4 to a Royal is the completed hand much more often than an actual Royal. I forget the exact number and I don't have the time to look it back up, but I've read it's close to 1 in 470 for 9/6 JoB. Just a little less frequent than a four of a kind. You should see roughly 85 "royal scares" for 1 "success" on average.[/QUOTE]


True story, a few years back I was chatting with a machine tech and I asked him if there was anything other than the RNG that determined the outcome of the game in particular the premium hands. He flat out said there was a secondary program that was used. Now I don't really believe a thing he said but I just thought I would bring it up seeing as how that casino had the same exact regulation you brought up. Another true and possibly one you may find funny. When the newest casino to our area opened up I was getting destroyed by the vp there as was everyone else I knew. I just happened to spot a gaming regulator while playing, she said she was head of the gaming authority for the area, I asked her if the game I was playing was completely random and ran only by and RNG. Her response was, "I'm not sure but that's probably something I should know right? Let me check it out and I'll get right back to you." I could go on and on with this kind of stuff. Here's another one. I got to know one of the guys that worked as a gaming regulator and had many a conversation with guy, very nice fellow. I was spouting off all the pay back percentages and statistics for the vp games and he ask me where in the world did I learn all that stuff. I then ask him what he did before he went to work for the state, he said he sold used cars. One last one, one of the ladies that worked as a gaming regulator who I used to see and talk to all the time stopped by to say hi while I was playing. The first thing I noticed was her badge, it was no longer a gaming regulator badge, she was now the liaison for the casino and the gaming authority, I found that kind of funny.

[FAA]

4 to a Royal is the completed hand much more often than an actual Royal.
It's close to 1 in 470 for 9/6 JoB. Just a little
less frequent than a four of a kind. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That sounds right. I see both of them with about the same frequency.You should see roughly 85 "royal
scares" for 1 "success" on average.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I see. Getting your scare score up is actually a good thing. It builds up karma and resilience. One day the hand will actually complete!

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]Her response was, "I'm not sure but that's probably something I should know right? Let me check it out and I'll get right back to you."[/quote]I suspect the regulators don't have a clue what they are suppose to be regulating when it comes to video poker.  I believe they use canned programs provided by the gaming industry to check these games without knowing a thing about what they are testing.   Today's computer software is so complex there are not many people who know what's really going on.  There are plenty of ways to affect the outcome of a video poker hand without tinkering with the RNG.  If you don't believe this is a problem, think about buying a Volkswagen diesel.  Players see the difference, but they are told all is legit and the problem is with their strategy, lack of skill or not having enough discipline.Video poker is fun for me and I still enjoy the games.   On the other hand, there is no way I would put serious money into one of today's video poker machines and rely on math and a RNG to bail me out.  Others may have a different opinion.  I'm telling it like it is on my side of the screen.

[FAA]

LOL. Math and RNG means a wing and a prayer, Phil! No serious money from me either. I'm okay with losing my free play winnings and a twenty if the VP deities so wish. I've been staying and paying, because we're all pretty stubborn. But the damage is relatively minor and I will just have to gnash my teeth and bear it on the inevitable nosedives.

[ko king]

[quote=ko king]Her response was, "I'm not sure but that's probably something I should know right? Let me check it out and I'll get right back to you."I suspect the regulators don't have a clue what they are suppose to be regulating when it comes to video poker.  I believe they use canned programs provided by the gaming industry to check these games without knowing a thing about what they are testing.   Today's computer software is so complex there are not many people who know what's really going on.  There are plenty of ways to affect the outcome of a video poker hand without tinkering with the RNG.  If you don't believe this is a problem, think about buying a Volkswagen diesel.  Players see the difference, but they are told all is legit and the problem is with their strategy, lack of skill or not having enough discipline.Video poker is fun for me and I still enjoy the games.   On the other hand, there is no way I would put serious money into one of today's video poker machines and rely on math and a RNG to bail me out.  Others may have a different opinion.  I'm telling it like it is on my side of the screen.


















[/QUOTE]

You just helped me realize something. I've played vp for about 22 years now. My strategy, skill level and discipline have improved a vast amount over the years yet my results have gotten worse, that doesn't make a lot of sense. There's no question that when I first started playing I lacked the knowledge to play the game anywhere near the required level to optimize my results. I bought a couple of books and a read up on all the correct methods of play and there's no question that in the beginning I was making mistakes that cost me. I corrected those mistakes and my play improved without question. It took a little while longer for me to learn discipline and managing my bankroll. After a couple of years I was up and running, for years I thought I had it all figured out. In 2011 I hit what I thought to be a dry spell but thus far it hasn't ended. My results and common sense have been whispering to me for quite a while now that something isn't right or something has changed. The only visible change I can point to is the lack of people playing, especially at the higher denominations. Now according to all the regulations and numbers that should have zero effect on my personal results, I don't buy that though. Whatever the problem may be I can't help but notice that the smaller quads still come around for me like they always did, it's the premium hands that have gotten very scarce.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king] The only visible change I can point to is the lack of people playing, especially at the higher denominations.[/quote]Knowledgeable players aren't stupid.  They may fall for a ruse for a while, but eventually they wise up.    I occasionally  take small pot shots in the high limit room.  I don't recommend this as a strategy, but I enjoy the thrill as long as it's not hurting my bankroll.  These days when I walk in it seems I'm totally alone.  This is because anyone who has the wherewithal to accumulate serious money can figure out pretty quickly that today's video poker is a loser and the only way you can win is to hit and run.  Waiting for the odds to bail you out is long gone as far as I'm concerned.  I consider video poker to be a game like Candy Crush or any other video game.  Once in a while it costs me 99 cents for a few more lives but I don't get too carried away.  So far I haven't made any money from Candy Crush, but it sure is cheaper than today's video poker. 

[Lionqueen]

This is very interesting. I always thought the RNG determined all hands but the initial hand can be programmed and RNG only applies to the secondary hand?? I've played VP for years and a lot of it and there has definitely been a shift in the past few years to the players disadvantage.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Lionqueen] I always thought the RNG determined all hands but the initial hand can
be programmed and RNG only applies to the secondary hand??[/quote]To be legal, the RNG must control all the hands.  I have no idea how regulators test RNG chips, but I suspect they don't know either.  It's not logical that a salaried government employee knows anything more about a complex computer system than what he/she has been told.  The software they have been given says the chip is legal, so that's the standard answer.The question is what to do about it?  You can either quit the game or adjust your strategy to compensate. The idea that you can make a lot of money playing video poker using a math based strategy alone is dead.  A few people claim they can still make this work.   These same people are making more money selling the dream of video poker than playing the game, so I don't give them much credibility.   If you haven't seen your results diminish and you think all this talk is crazy, keep playing the way you always have.  If you're tired of getting beat up at the casino, maybe it's time to try something different?