QQ question for Bob and Vman

[jetermacaw]

My game of choice is QQs. 5-10 hand. Most of my big hits have been on TDB, with the hits being Royals, aces with kicker and 2,3,4 with kicker, 4 oak aces. I'm not really seeing a lot of QQs to warrant the extra coin so this past week I tried playing 5 coin instead of 6. put $100 in and hit 10 natural 4oak with the only penalty being 4aces paying 800 instead of 1000. I know this is just a short example, but do you gentleman see this as a viable option. 9/5 TDB. Thanks in advance.

[BobDancer]

For TDB, 6-coin QQ is always lower paying than 5-coin regular QQ, so playing 5 coins per line is "better", but just being "better" does not make it close to being good.I don't see any version of 9-5 TDB being playable. It.s a 97% game --- compounded with having a sky-high variance. You will lose overall --- and have very long losing streaks along the way.

[FAA]

But oh, what delightful sound effects! Stuck in the mud 99.5% JOB looks better all the time.

[jetermacaw]

But oh, what delightful sound effects! Stuck in the mud 99.5% JOB looks better all the time.

To you I guess, I've had 8 Royals and 2 aces/kicker and it's only March how you doing. You get put to sleep while you lose LOL.

[BobDancer]

[QUOTE=jetermacaw]
To you I guess, I've had 8 Royals and 2 aces/kicker and it's only March how you doing. You get put to sleep while you lose LOL.[/QUOTE]How many royals and AWAKs you've had in any time period has NOTHING TO DO with whether or not a game will be profitable to play in the future. These things are largely independent of the pay schedule and mostly due to short term luck. You'll hit as many of those on a 95% game as you will on a 99+% game.Your total score, however, will over time usually be much better on a 99+% game than it is on a 95% game. This is true if you're a recreational player as well as if you're a professional player.

[jetermacaw]

"How many royals and AWAKs you've had in any time period has NOTHING TO DO with whether or not a game will be profitable to play in the future."

Thanks for your replies Bob. As a rec player what time frame constitutes "play in the future"? I have been in the black for the last 3 years, nothing major of course but enough to fund my weekly trips to AC on their dime. Should I now change my strategy and play lower variance games with higher pay back % because law of averages says I will start to lose? I'm not looking to make a living on VP, I enjoy the Casino atmosphere, free rooms, free food and drink that I receive NOW playing games that I find enjoyable and I win at. So I should start playing a boring single line 9/6 JOB that only gives 1 tier credit for every $50 thru, as compared to the $10 to 1 tier credits that I get now because in the FUTURE the results will be better. Thanks for your input but I'll stick to what is working NOW because we never know what the FUTURE will bring.   

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=jetermacaw] I'm
not looking to make a living on VP, I enjoy the Casino atmosphere, free
rooms, free food and drink that I receive NOW playing games that I find
enjoyable and I win at.[/quote]Bob Dancer is a professional.  He gets paid to have the right answers, so he gives mathematically correct answers not the ones we want to hear.   As recreational players we allow personal thoughts and desires to influence the way we play.  Sometimes our play goes against the math, but we do it anyway because we enjoy playing that way.  Is that wrong?   Depends upon what you are trying to accomplish.

[Vman96]

For TDB, 6-coin QQ is always lower paying than 5-coin regular QQ, so playing 5 coins per line is "better", but just being "better" does not make it close to being good.I don't see any version of 9-5 TDB being playable. It.s a 97% game --- compounded with having a sky-high variance. You will lose overall --- and have very long losing streaks along the way.



You sure about that Bob? 9/6 TDB with QQ is 98.31% vs. 98.15% for the normal game. Now the reason why 9/7 TDB is not offered on QQ, is like you say...QQ would hurt the game then...99.48% vs. 99.58% for the normal game.

I do agree TDB quick quads is a poor choice without some good promo to go with it.

And that's great you've been up on VP in the last three years with playing ~98% games, jeter. I'm glad to hear someone is running the exact opposite of olds and other members on this forum. There aren't enough people claiming wins here, imo. But like Bob said, I wouldn't expect this to continue. 98.31% is 98.31%, but if you're getting say double your expected share of royals or quads with a kicker on TDB, then being in the black is much more likely.

Edited to Add: 8 Royals vs. only 2 AWAK?? No wonder you're up. Those numbers are normally reversed. Although if these are all TDB numbers, then it doesn't matter. But the biggest question is, how many total hands have you played for these 10 major hits?

[jetermacaw]

Vman I don't play TDB exclusively, I tend to switch back and forth from BP [which was downgraded last year to 7/5 from 8/5 ]. I do not keep count of how many hands are played during a session, I just play. I only play on RC multiplier days and take advantage of all bonus offers that CZR offers. And like I said I'm not winning thousands of $, biggest win this year has been $800, most lost is $200 and everything in between. Harrahs is exactly 1 hr. from house to valet check in. I go once a week for what I consider a great day out. If I start to lose like DB I'll go back to fishing.

[DaBurglar]

     On Thursday, Jeter was playing at harrahs, which like all CET properties that day, had the MULTIPLIER in effect for Reward credits.....I believe the multiplier for that day was 4X (it can be as high as 10X).    So there's that.....Plus, as I mentioned in my own AC post earlier, I tried the same game Jeter was playing after he left.....for total turds & giggles, and because nothing else was working) I tried playing the same way (for about 35-40 minutes), playing 5 line QQ DB but only betting 5 per line.   I earned 30 points, which (at 1.25 per hand, times 5 lines, times 8 dealt hands, to equal one point) means I saw about 1200 total hands.  I hit 5 regular, non QQ "quads" in those 1200 hands.....this is a lot better than the expected long term rate of quads hits on a "normal" standard randomized 52 card deck, which typically averages out to one quad every 440 hands or so .....combined with jeter's rate of normal, non quick, quads, I'd say we both were somehow experiencing the same thing, whatever that is.....I do not want to justify or argue for any specific type of strategy or play, but I usually tend to limit my play to the BEST pay tables available at the money level I am willing to play at.....(hence why I have stuck with the 25 cent 99%+ games at places like Resorts and TAJ for so long, much to my ultimate chagrin......)    Bob dancer always provides the proper mathematical answer combined with his nuanced strategy for advantage play, but in his doing so he is also tunnel visioned and fails to consider the viewpoint(s) of the vast majority of the casual non-professionals who actually have lives and real livings, for whom video poker is a different pursuit.   I honestly do not "get" why he does this, since (1) his "business model" is contingent upon cultivating the attention and goodwill of all the "Non professionals" out there to get them to purchase whatever it is he is peddling, and (2) If....IF all of a sudden, all of us ignoramuses were to start singularly playing ONLY the "best, most mathematically strong games", pretty soon there would be NO MORE of these "best" games.    In short,.he needs the "boneheads" whether he wants to admit it or not.edited to add:   As jeter also indirectly points out, those of us in the real world who have lives OUTSIDE of the greater Las vegas area, are subject to the constraints of what the market locally has to offer.....there is a REASON BOB is based in vegas, and again, if all of the "STRONGER smarter VP players" were to descend on VEGAS, while at the same time the weaker non-pro players up'd their game(s) and focused on VEGAS, things would change in terms of the opportunities ,,,,, so if bob is true to his word about NOT playing any game like the ones the rest of us often play, then I guess Bob would have to do something else, wouldn't he?Also, the definition of "long term" is a justifiable question to ask.....what exactly is a realistic application of this concept to the average person's life and specifically, his casino play/strategy?    Finally, given that HARRAHS (and the CET properties) operates on SERVER for all its games, which does in fact mean it can exercise a wide range and variety of control and manipulation, the results both jeter and I saw, even though they were indeed of a limited nature, seems to allow the formulation of a hypothesis that "SOMETHING is up"  at least in terms of the operation of that QQ game/machine.    Regardless of whetehr people want to admit it or not, video poker games are simply machines/computers which can be altered, modified, set up in a certain way, and subject to the whims, machinations and actions of its human operators.    Given that I have previously documented and demonstrated MY OWN experiences and understanding of the level of oversight now being employed in and around AC casinos, and given that the AC casino market is still in horrible shape and not getting any better, I submit that ANYTHING is POSSIBLE at this point in time.......