higher denom. vs # lines

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Vman96]Yeah, I would tell Phil not to do this when he was flipping between one
and five coins. He would move up to one coin at $5, even though the $1
level had the exact same paytable. Max betting dollars instead is
freerolling the Royal Flush payout![/quote]I have changed my thinking on this subject recently.  Single coin play can be a useful tool if your goal is to stretch your playing time or you have a small budget or you must play truly horrible games for an extended period of time.  You pay a premium for this option, but the smaller bets limit your loses.The hardest thing to get your head around is the large amount money you need to "invest" in this game to earn the best return.  Attempting to limit your loses on an hourly basis by doing things that hurt the long term return is counterproductive.  Even a quarter player needs thousands of dollars to do this right and no amount of trickery will get you around it.  Moving up to dollar play or higher makes this even worse. It's not only the bankroll that's an issue, you also must have unbending faith in the strategy to get through the horrible bad spells.  Personally, I think this is the toughest part of the game.  No amount of money in your savings account will shield you from the horrible feeling of walking out with a big loss. Unfortunately, the bad days come right along with the winning days.

[olds442jetaway]

I have changed my way of thinking and playing too recently, and unfortunately, one cannot argue the math long term. One just never knows when the premium hands will hit and make up most of some horrible bad stretches. I posted the other day about the lady I was sitting next to hitting Royals just 20 hands apart good for 2k. That would have made up for my 3 most recent failed discipline sessions. You are right about the size of bankroll needed. That is why I will remain at most a quarter player, but will make sure to avoid the 2% or so Royal penalty. I have one idea I was wondering if you ( Phil ) have ever thought about. There are 2 ways to approach it. As we all know, we can go several sessions and not hit quad deuces. In fact, I would not be surprised to go 50k hands at some point and not hit them. Anyway method 1 would be to bet only the amount starting with 5 quarters to get you even or better when the quad deuces hit. Method 2 would be to see where you stand after you hit the quad deuces at bet 5 and then bet whatever amount would be needed to be even or better when the quad deuces hit again. You would not increase that bet at all until the quad deuces hit and then re evaluate at that point. Any Royals that come along would just be a big plus. What I don't have a handle on yet is how high the bet might be in really long stretches without hitting quad deuces to be even when they hit. I think this might be doable with quad deuces, but it definitely won't work for me to rely on Royals. I have been hitting quad deuces right about on schedule long term since I have been playing vp. The long stretches without them are almost always followed by hitting them close together. What I found most interesting in Bob D's recent article in the Las Vegas Adviser was how he might continue to play after hitting the quad deuces if for that sequence, he was still behind. I know that doesn't mean they will hit soon or anything like that, but I did find it interesting and could see how I could incorporate that kine of play into what I have described above. I am heading up tonight. Since I took a big hit recently, I may start my play on the nickel machines that pay the 800 for 1 nickel on the Royal, but at the same time keep track of either method 1 or 2 above. Well let the gang know how it goes. Other that quitting playing altogether, I am running out of options to play without losing big if I still cannot hit the Royals on schedule this year.
     

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=olds442jetaway]That is why I will remain at most a quarter player, but will make sure
to avoid the 2% or so Royal penalty. I have one idea I was wondering if
you ( Phil ) have ever thought about. [/quote]My current thinking is to go with the math.  I quit trying to invent a strategy to engineer around my loses and/or my feelings of the day.  To get better odds, I moved to 50 cent and $1 play and it hasn't been that bad.  If you've been following my posts on the recreational forum you can see how I only lost $100 in four sessions without a quad deuce or a royal. It requires a lot more cash to play this way, but the net result has been better so far.  I actually feel like I've gotten a raise...My current strategy would be to ditch CS, ditch Martingale Clone, ditch gimmicky super high variance games and don't touch DDB with a 50 foot stick.  Play only low variance games, find the best odds, play as computer perfect as you can, buy  a lock box if you need to, stay patient and keep the faith baby!   

[olds442jetaway]

Pretty much my plan except I am going to give the ( bet what you need to be even when deuces quads hit ) a try. My gut feeling is most of the play will remain at 5 quarters except for long dry spells. That is when the proof will be in the pudding or the pudding has gone bad because I forgot or didn't follow some of the basics. Saw a great show this afternoon with my dad about the James Bond DB5's etc. Catch it sometime if you can.

     Edited to add....I am trying to get the Mrs. on Friday nights to play side by side with one of us playing 99% airport deuces ( 5 quarters ) and one of us playing 9/6 job or 99% quarter bonus poker. She still enjoys DDB too much and is doing much better than me even playing a low paytable nickel game so I really can't say much. Luckily, she is still at my side on other more important things and she is off next week for school vacation. Whoo Who! Maybe they will throw in a suite one night. Not likely, but would be nice.

[wildman49]

I moved to 50 cent and $1 play and it hasn't been that bad. 










Phil have you been playing any $1 JOB 9/6 you have there and if so how are you doing with it?Right now that's the game I been playing the most, 90% of play at JOB 9/6. Mix it with a few others. have had a good start to the year at max betting. I did do 1 night of CS after a bad 4 trips in a row, dropped $900 in them 4 trips and that one CS night can home up $60 felt better to break the bad karma that had a hold on me. But that is how VP rolls up and down, sounds like you have it going well keep it up! 

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=wildman49]Phil have you been playing any $1 JOB 9/6 you have there and if so how are you doing with it?[/quote]No, I've been playing 98.9% Deuces Wild which starts at the 50 cent level in Tampa.  I played Jacks for years and it's just too boring for me.  My goal is to enjoy myself and keep my annual loses to a minimum.  If I'm lucky enough to make some money along the way, all the better.  I moved up in denomination and switched to max coins so I could play the best DW odds available to me.  Using the lock box has nothing to do with the game itself, it's just a tool I use to manage my money.In my view there is nothing wrong with single coin play or CS if you are playing VP strictly as entertainment.  Betting small to stretch your playing time has real value to a recreational player.  Some people are on this forum to promote their business interests.  For them any advice coming from someone other than themselves is threatening, so they strike back.If bankroll is not a problem and you want to get the most out of the game long term, I believe steady and accurate max coin play is the way to go.

[Lucky Larry]

[quote=olds442jetaway]...My current strategy would be to ditch CS, ditch Martingale Clone, ditch gimmicky super high variance games and don't touch DDB with a 50 foot stick.  Play only low variance games, find the best odds, play as computer perfect as you can, buy  a lock box if you need to, stay patient and keep the faith baby!    


Now you're playing the way I play. I worked too hard for my money to generally play high variance.   LL