The difference in Bob Dancer's strategy and CS is the environment we play in. Right now I am staying in Vegas playing 100% games and loving it. One would be a fool not to use Bob's strategy here. The problem is the vast majority of players in the US do not have access to games even close to these unless they raid their savings account and play way above their budgets. Bob never addresses these players except to tell them not to play at all. This is not an answer or a solution. I would also like to point out he does not tell them his strategy doesn't work for them, he only says he is one of the few who can make it work. He knows good and well what many players will follow his lead anyway and he is glad to see them lead to the slaughter.
CS is a way to play seriously negative games with as little damage as possible. That's all it has ever been. After years of playing in Biloxi with horrendous losses, I created it to survive not win long term.
I have lots of differences with Bob Dancer other than his unwillingness to help the little guy. I have serious ethics problems with his constant justification of professional gambling as a career choice and think he has wasted his life enriching himself at others expense. In addition his condescending comments are hurtful to anyone who happens to fall into his disfavor.
I feel strongly about these issues and have tried to keep them to myself. Unfortunately, some members keep bringing them up.
Bob Dancer on Losing
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FloridaPhil
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Tedlark
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As I have stated here before: I am neither for or against Phil's CS. Nor do I wave pom-poms for Bob Dancer and what he sells.
I play video poker mostly for enjoyment and if I win a few bucks here or there, that's great. I budget money for gambling just like recreational players and I will occasionally venture past my budget but I do it at my own will. Have I played on machines or played games with less than stellar paytables? Yes I have. Have I regretted it? No. I've been to Las Vegas almost 50 times since 1977, only 1 of those trips was when I was not of legal age to gamble. So, I play where I play. If it were a perfect world for me I'd be either: going to Las Vegas more or moving closer to Nevada. But because my world isn't perfect right now I get to Las Vegas when I can (and love the hell out of the town) and I play around the midwest when I can.
Just because I have almost a dozen casinos within a 1 1/2 hour drive and maybe 6 more within a 3 hour drive I don't go to them really all that often. So when I get a jones to gamble; I'll go. It's been about a month since my last casino outing, as I mentioned in a different thread; my free play was cut at one of the places I play and that was incentive enough to just not be a slave to free play. I am disciplined with gambling just like I am disciplined in some other aspects of my life.
I have a comment about what Phil wrote regarding Bob Dancer. Phil comments that he has serious ethics problems regarding Bob and how he approaches the way he (Bob) earns his livelihood. I don't understand why Phil would let that bother him; don't worry over what you can't control. Phil will only see himself when looking into his shaving mirror, he will not see Bob Dancer. Bob does what he thinks is best for him and his family and I'm pretty sure that Phil does what he thinks is best for himself and his family.
I play video poker mostly for enjoyment and if I win a few bucks here or there, that's great. I budget money for gambling just like recreational players and I will occasionally venture past my budget but I do it at my own will. Have I played on machines or played games with less than stellar paytables? Yes I have. Have I regretted it? No. I've been to Las Vegas almost 50 times since 1977, only 1 of those trips was when I was not of legal age to gamble. So, I play where I play. If it were a perfect world for me I'd be either: going to Las Vegas more or moving closer to Nevada. But because my world isn't perfect right now I get to Las Vegas when I can (and love the hell out of the town) and I play around the midwest when I can.
Just because I have almost a dozen casinos within a 1 1/2 hour drive and maybe 6 more within a 3 hour drive I don't go to them really all that often. So when I get a jones to gamble; I'll go. It's been about a month since my last casino outing, as I mentioned in a different thread; my free play was cut at one of the places I play and that was incentive enough to just not be a slave to free play. I am disciplined with gambling just like I am disciplined in some other aspects of my life.
I have a comment about what Phil wrote regarding Bob Dancer. Phil comments that he has serious ethics problems regarding Bob and how he approaches the way he (Bob) earns his livelihood. I don't understand why Phil would let that bother him; don't worry over what you can't control. Phil will only see himself when looking into his shaving mirror, he will not see Bob Dancer. Bob does what he thinks is best for him and his family and I'm pretty sure that Phil does what he thinks is best for himself and his family.
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FloridaPhil
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- Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am
Bob Dancer promotes the idea that betting bigger is better. He openly states that he gambles hundreds of thousands of dollars on a regular basis. If fact, he brags that he has become wealthy from this activity. Can you imagine how much harm has been caused to players and their families from attempting to duplicate his reported results?
CS is a way to enjoy the most common video poker games while keeping loses to a minimum. It's none of my business what anyone does for a living even if I think it's deplorable. It is my business to care about my fellow man. If CS helps a few players, I feel like it's been worth the criticism. I have received numerous emails from people thanking me for CS. It took me from losing $15K a year to making a little money. I think that's a pretty decent result.
CS is a way to enjoy the most common video poker games while keeping loses to a minimum. It's none of my business what anyone does for a living even if I think it's deplorable. It is my business to care about my fellow man. If CS helps a few players, I feel like it's been worth the criticism. I have received numerous emails from people thanking me for CS. It took me from losing $15K a year to making a little money. I think that's a pretty decent result.
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Galeygoo
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:40 am
Phil....aren't you in Vegas right now? Get the heck out of here and go have fun..
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notes1
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I am no fan of dancer's personality and he is more than capable of defending himself. but, criticizing someone for earning a living legally, is unfair and ridiculous. in the posts I have read recently, he has clearly stated the perils of gambling.
I can assure you that more lives were destroyed financially by those who bought overpriced real estate in the state of florida and elsewhere, than those who lost everything playing VP. should we defame r/e salespeople?
life is full of choices, it is the responsibility of each person to make the proper choices. and, to learn from the poor choices they make.
I can assure you that more lives were destroyed financially by those who bought overpriced real estate in the state of florida and elsewhere, than those who lost everything playing VP. should we defame r/e salespeople?
life is full of choices, it is the responsibility of each person to make the proper choices. and, to learn from the poor choices they make.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4421
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
Dancers books make it pretty clear that playing bad pay tables is folly and should be avoided.
Who is doing people a bigger disservice? Someone who tells people not to play or someone who not only encourages them to play bad games but also tells them to play them less than optimal.
Who is doing people a bigger disservice? Someone who tells people not to play or someone who not only encourages them to play bad games but also tells them to play them less than optimal.
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alpax
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1913
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:42 pm
As I have stated here before: I am neither for or against Phil's CS. Nor do I wave pom-poms for Bob Dancer and what he sells.
I play video poker mostly for enjoyment and if I win a few bucks here or there, that's great. I budget money for gambling just like recreational players and I will occasionally venture past my budget but I do it at my own will. Have I played on machines or played games with less than stellar paytables? Yes I have. Have I regretted it? No. I am disciplined with gambling just like I am disciplined in some other aspects of my life.
Only in my opinion, the most respectable about yourself. You take full responsibility over the game and have never expressed any qualms about the game you've enjoyed for years. Handled everything well.
Bob Dancer promotes the idea that betting bigger is better. He openly states that he gambles hundreds of thousands of dollars on a regular basis. If fact, he brags that he has become wealthy from this activity. Can you imagine how much harm has been caused to players and their families from attempting to duplicate his reported results?
There has to come to a point where a player has to stomp on the brakes and quit if he or she does not believe it is no longer worth it, it is his or her fault if it comes to life damaging repercussions.
I have strongly urged you to adapt to today's VP standards and not think about what it were before.
Mr. Dancer is very confident to put that kind of money at risk. Not all casinos are alike, some places he admits to playing $1 or $2 denominations at most because it is superior than the high denominations. Some places, the high limit room games are vastly superior than the low denomination ones.
You are only focused on the low denomination games everywhere, which is the reason you do not understand.
To respect your wishes, I will try hard to not bring up the past feud between yourself and Mr. Dancer again.
I am no fan of dancer's personality and he is more than capable of defending himself. but, criticizing someone for earning a living legally, is unfair and ridiculous. in the posts I have read recently, he has clearly stated the perils of gambling.
I can assure you that more lives were destroyed financially by those who bought overpriced real estate in the state of florida and elsewhere, than those who lost everything playing VP. should we defame r/e salespeople?
life is full of choices, it is the responsibility of each person to make the proper choices. and, to learn from the poor choices they make.
100% agreed. The key difference is, one could stop playing VP or gambling with enough discipline, but it is not easy to back out of a mortgage.
Dancers books make it pretty clear that playing bad pay tables is folly and should be avoided.
Who is doing people a bigger disservice? Someone who tells people not to play or someone who not only encourages them to play bad games but also tells them to play them less than optimal.
Another good piece of constructive criticism.
Not the first time hearing about bad pay tables, but one of the most prolific members (who plays to beat the casino) of the WizardOfVegas forum said recently sometimes the best play is done on 97% games. Mr. Dancer DID NOT dispute that. It was on a thread where various forum members offered their opinions about vpFREE for listing out just the 99%+ games (maybe 98% if the casino does not have many 99%).
On the vpFREE board last week, Mr. Dancer admitted to playing 9-5 Jacks or Better 98.45% in the past because it was the best play.
I agree about playing less than optimal part (single coin), but the player does need to know what it takes.
This day and age, it requires much creative thinking to be successful. A good amount of people failed Mr. Dancer's first litmus test of
"If you do not have the edge, do not play."
I cannot get past the second litmus test of
"If you do not have the bankroll, do not play"
I play video poker mostly for enjoyment and if I win a few bucks here or there, that's great. I budget money for gambling just like recreational players and I will occasionally venture past my budget but I do it at my own will. Have I played on machines or played games with less than stellar paytables? Yes I have. Have I regretted it? No. I am disciplined with gambling just like I am disciplined in some other aspects of my life.
Only in my opinion, the most respectable about yourself. You take full responsibility over the game and have never expressed any qualms about the game you've enjoyed for years. Handled everything well.
Bob Dancer promotes the idea that betting bigger is better. He openly states that he gambles hundreds of thousands of dollars on a regular basis. If fact, he brags that he has become wealthy from this activity. Can you imagine how much harm has been caused to players and their families from attempting to duplicate his reported results?
There has to come to a point where a player has to stomp on the brakes and quit if he or she does not believe it is no longer worth it, it is his or her fault if it comes to life damaging repercussions.
I have strongly urged you to adapt to today's VP standards and not think about what it were before.
Mr. Dancer is very confident to put that kind of money at risk. Not all casinos are alike, some places he admits to playing $1 or $2 denominations at most because it is superior than the high denominations. Some places, the high limit room games are vastly superior than the low denomination ones.
You are only focused on the low denomination games everywhere, which is the reason you do not understand.
To respect your wishes, I will try hard to not bring up the past feud between yourself and Mr. Dancer again.
I am no fan of dancer's personality and he is more than capable of defending himself. but, criticizing someone for earning a living legally, is unfair and ridiculous. in the posts I have read recently, he has clearly stated the perils of gambling.
I can assure you that more lives were destroyed financially by those who bought overpriced real estate in the state of florida and elsewhere, than those who lost everything playing VP. should we defame r/e salespeople?
life is full of choices, it is the responsibility of each person to make the proper choices. and, to learn from the poor choices they make.
100% agreed. The key difference is, one could stop playing VP or gambling with enough discipline, but it is not easy to back out of a mortgage.
Dancers books make it pretty clear that playing bad pay tables is folly and should be avoided.
Who is doing people a bigger disservice? Someone who tells people not to play or someone who not only encourages them to play bad games but also tells them to play them less than optimal.
Another good piece of constructive criticism.
Not the first time hearing about bad pay tables, but one of the most prolific members (who plays to beat the casino) of the WizardOfVegas forum said recently sometimes the best play is done on 97% games. Mr. Dancer DID NOT dispute that. It was on a thread where various forum members offered their opinions about vpFREE for listing out just the 99%+ games (maybe 98% if the casino does not have many 99%).
On the vpFREE board last week, Mr. Dancer admitted to playing 9-5 Jacks or Better 98.45% in the past because it was the best play.
I agree about playing less than optimal part (single coin), but the player does need to know what it takes.
This day and age, it requires much creative thinking to be successful. A good amount of people failed Mr. Dancer's first litmus test of
"If you do not have the edge, do not play."
I cannot get past the second litmus test of
"If you do not have the bankroll, do not play"
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FAA
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 8567
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am
Phil advocates playing the best AVAILABLE game using the cheap system.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Oh, yeah. This is an important point I have been overlooking! Since I already have the best odds, I really can step off the CS gas a bit more and pursue those full pay quads when the machine is rolling astoundingly well, as on Sunday. Did I leave $100 in the machine or what?
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FAA
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 8567
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am
It is my business to care about my fellow man. If CS helps a few
players, it's been worth the criticism. I have received
numerous emails thanking me for CS. It took me from losing
$15K a year to making a little money. I think that's a pretty decent
result.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Absolutely. What's not to love about going from deep red to black? I visualize it as VP Rope a Dope. Play defensively for most of the session. Strike selectively, but decisively. If luck cooperates, obtain check at cage. Enjoy city.
players, it's been worth the criticism. I have received
numerous emails thanking me for CS. It took me from losing
$15K a year to making a little money. I think that's a pretty decent
result.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Absolutely. What's not to love about going from deep red to black? I visualize it as VP Rope a Dope. Play defensively for most of the session. Strike selectively, but decisively. If luck cooperates, obtain check at cage. Enjoy city.
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FloridaPhil
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 6229
- Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am
Selling a strategy that promises to make you money from gambling is the same as selling worthless real estate flipping programs. Setting yourself up as a hero because you spend your life gambling is wrong. That's all I have to say on that issue. Back to VP...
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