Bankroll Issues

[rascal]

The idea is to beat the casino, not to beat the actual machine. Playing the machine is the key to unlocking the secondary bonus game- the secret world of comp exploitation. That is where the money is. And the fun.

Yes, of course. And there are a limited number of players who have the time and patience to successfully unlock the "secret world of comp exploitation."
But, obviously, casinos did not develop this secret world to enhance anyone's profits but their own. As I stated in the original post, regular players are by far the bread and butter for the casino. Comps and other bennies are offered to (a) turn players into regulars and (b) to keep regulars playing regularly. Due to competitive factors, of course someone who is willing to devote time and research to mailers and other comps might be able to eke out a small profit. However, I will submit that a casino that deliberately offers comps and other promotions to attract revenues is not going to deliberately long-term lose money on that new revenue.

[FloridaPhil]

Mailers, contests and comps are there to keep you coming back.  Most casino gamblers don't play the best games with computer generated strategy, so the more time they spend in the casino the more they lose.   Playing games with near or over 100% returns and taking advantage of comps is beating the casino at their own game.  While I do not claim to be ahead over the 10 years or so I have been playing video poker, my cost to play is well within my definition of what constitutes a bargain. 

[billryan]

Who cares if they do it on purpose or not. They do it, and some people exploit it. I know two long time card counters who switched over to VP. and get thousands of dollars in free play every month. If you play $50,000 of your own money, and $2,000 of free play and get near the 99% percent payout,are able to do that at several casinos, and then throw in player club rewards, you are not eaking out a small profit.
The ability to exploit VP dwarves the ability to do so in BJ, although my local casino sent out $10 match plays you can use once a day.
What is hurting them is casino consolidation. The Cannery's and Palms being brought into larger casino groups lessens the number of mailings you get.

[DAAnMAAn]

Although December was a losing month for me, I've been a net winner at my local casino for a few years now. Case in point, I no longer receive free play nor mailers, which really tells me I'm a net winner lol
Sometimes I do get off my over 100% games and earn some points playing the 99% games like 8/5 bonus or ugly deuces.
But from what I've seen from other video poker players around me, most are absolutely clueless about strategy, pay tables, bankroll, anything except the thrill of the spin.
But I'm not complaining, and not surprised that even in casino corporate they are convinced there are no winning casino players of any kind. To think otherwise for them is against their paradigm thinking that the casino always win, which most of the time is true, but not always.

[FloridaPhil]

The casinos are not our enemies, they are our partners.   Each casino sets up their own system and it's up to you to be exploited (if you want to look at it that way) or take advantage of it.  You don't have to be a high roller or an insider to benefit from playing video poker.  If you want to go professional and live off your VP earnings, I imagine it's a hard way to make a living but some do it successfully.  If you want to play great games, stay in nice resorts, drink and eat for practically nothing, you can do that too.Moving back to our original subject.  If you're serious about VP, start a separate VP bankroll and begin the process of building it up.  Playing out of your wallet, you will never know where your VP play is going.  You will over estimate your winnings and minimize your loses.  You will occasionally play with scared money and you will do things that are counter productive.  In other words, you will be doing exactly what the casino wants you to do.  If you do this right you may not make money long term, but you will find your bankroll is much larger than you expected which is not a bad thing.  

[ko king]

The casinos are not our enemies, they are our partners.   Like Bill pointed out, each casino sets up their own system and it's up to you to be exploited (if you want to look at it that way) or take advantage of it.  You don't have to be a high roller or an insider to benefit from playing video poker.  If you want to go professional and live off your VP earnings, I imagine it's a hard way to make a living but some do it successfully.  If you want to play great games, stay in nice resorts, drink and eat for practically nothing, you can do that too.Moving back to our original subject.  If you're serious about VP, start a separate VP bankroll and begin the process of building it up.  Playing out of your wallet, you will never know where your VP play is going.  You will over estimate your winnings and minimize your loses.  You will occasionally play with scared money and you will do things that are counter productive.  In other words, you will be doing exactly what the casino wants you to do.  If you do this right you may not make money long term, but you will find your bankroll is much larger than you expected which is not a bad thing.  










Just spent 2 weeks in Tampa and played a lot of vp at Hard Rock, the vp play there reminded me of how the games used to be here. My wife who tried to jump into vp a few years back even enjoyed herself playing in Tampa and said if our vp was like this she would play all the time. I've learned how to control my losses pretty well playing around these parts but coming out a winner is not possible in my opinion.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko King]

I've learned how to control my losses pretty well playing around these
parts but coming out a winner is not possible in my opinion.[/quote]The Tampa Hard Rock is one of the largest casinos in the US and as you probably noticed they are in the process of expanding it big time. I play there at least one full day a week.  As most casinos you need to look around for opportunities.  The full pay games like you occasionally find in Vegas are not available in Florida.  However, 99% games plus comps are available.  Making money long term playing Florida games is possible, but it takes an extraordinary amount of luck.  Personally, I think play errors contribute more to loses than odds.  It's a lot harder to play 100% computer perfect than most people think.  A professional would need to make this happen for months or even years on end.  I don't think very many players can do that.  Besides, most players play for recreation and making money is not their total motivation. I have made a small profit for a few years in a row, but doing it lifetime.. no way.  Could I do it in Vegas?  Who knows?  I have a real job, so I don't care. 

[ko king]

[quote=ko King]

I've learned how to control my losses pretty well playing around these
parts but coming out a winner is not possible in my opinion.The Tampa Hard Rock is one of the largest casinos in the US and as you probably noticed they are in the process of expanding it big time. I play there at least one full day a week.  As most casinos you need to look around for opportunities.  The full pay games like you occasionally find in Vegas are not available in Florida.  However, 99% games plus comps are available.  Making money long term playing Florida games is possible, but it takes an extraordinary amount of luck.  Personally, I think play errors contribute more to loses than odds.  It's a lot harder to play 100% computer perfect than most people think.  A professional would need to make this happen for months or even years on end.  I don't think very many players can do that.  Besides, most players play for recreation and making money is not their total motivation. I have made a small profit for a few years in a row, but doing it lifetime.. no way.  Could I do it in Vegas?  Who knows?  I have a real job, so I don't care. 






[/QUOTE]

Noticed the expansion going on and searched around and found the best pay tables, like most casinos they have some machines that offer up weak pay tables. Wasn't happy about the $10 parking fee but you can get away with that when you offer up the only game in town. I did pretty well playing there and enjoyed myself.

[FloridaPhil]

The $10 parking fee is a new addition.  They say it's to pay for enhanced parking security.  I've never had a problem with security, so I think it's more to fund their expansion.  As an Elite level player, I don't pay for parking.   The current casino was an old hotel at one time.  They don't have many rooms, so it's expensive to stay there.  The new hotel should open up more rooms for comps.  The Hollywood Hard Rock is currently much better.  The odds are better and the ventilation system is better as well.  One of the problems with Tampa is the sometimes thick cigarette and cigar smoke.  I don't notice it much in Hollywood.   If I had the choice I would play only in Hollywood.  Tampa is about 2 hours from my house in Mount Dora and Hollywood is 4 hours so I only go down there about once a month. If you're ever going to Tampa again, send  me a message and I will try to meet you there.  I'm going this again Friday.

[ko king]

The $10 parking fee is a new addition.  They say it's to pay for enhanced parking security.  I've never had a problem with security, so I think it's more to fund their expansion.  As an Elite level player, I don't pay for parking.   The current casino was an old hotel at one time.  They don't have many rooms, so it's expensive to stay there.  The new hotel should open up more rooms for comps.  The Hollywood Hard Rock is currently much better.  The odds are better and the ventilation system is better as well.  One of the problems with Tampa is the sometimes thick cigarette and cigar smoke.  I don't notice it much in Hollywood.   If I had the choice I would play only in Hollywood.  Tampa is about 2 hours from my house in Mount Dora and Hollywood is 4 hours so I only go down there about once a month. If you're ever going to Tampa again, send  me a message and I will try to meet you there.  I'm going this again Friday.


I should have sent you a message in the first place as I would have liked to meet you, I was also looking for a golf partner. The weather was fantastic and the golf courses I played were very nice. I won't forget to let you know when I come back.