Bankroll Issues

[Vman96]

I know lots of lifetime VP winners.  They went to the casino one or two times, got lucky and never went back.  As humans, we like to think we are in control.  Playing the best games with perfect strategy stacks the game in your favor, but you are still at the mercy of chance.  There are no guarantees in video poker.  Winners can occur as well as losers.  The hope that you will strike it rich or at a minimum walk out with a big windfall is what drives the industry.  If players didn't believe it was possible, many people would quit the game.  If you take away the dream, what's the fun of playing?




My ex is a lifetime winner. The only times she played VP was next to me and we only played a few times together because we didn't live near a casino at the time. Probably hasn't even played 1000 hands. She hit a quarter royal in spades next to me at the former Harrah's St. Louis over 11 years ago. I'm still waiting on both of those feats. I'm more than willing to wait longer on the spades though. Haha

[FloridaPhil]

If you read his posts or listen to Bob Dancer's radio program, he will tell you he occasionally plays negative games.  There is always a comp or cash back involved that turns it into an advantage game.  I am sure Bob Dancer is a lifetime VP winner, but without comps and incentives the picture could be quite a bit different.   He is a great video poker player.  He is also a master of the Vegas comp game.  For most regular players, lifetime VP winning is by pure chance and the odds are slim at best.  The fact that the possibility even exists is what keeps many of us playing.

[alpax]

If you read his posts or listen to Bob Dancer's radio program, he will tell you he occasionally plays negative games.  There is always a comp or cash back involved that turns it into an advantage game.  I am sure Bob Dancer is a lifetime VP winner, but without comps and incentives the picture could be quite a bit different.   He is a great video poker player.  He is also a master of the Vegas comp game.  For most regular players, lifetime VP winning is by pure chance and the odds are slim at best.  The fact that the possibility even exists is what keeps many of us playing.



Never understood the reason you do not improve on your comp game despite knowing full well Mr. Dancer needs it to be ahead. Perhaps that should be your VP New Years Resolution for 2017, but up to you.

[case]

Phil. Comps are part of the equation. Life time winners use the comps. It is the comps the put you over the top. Of course Dancer uses comps to add to his bottom line.

[billryan]

Most video poker players are clueless, or have minimum knowledge of their game. Of course they are lucky to be ahead.
Then you have those who know their games, know the comp system and play games with good pay tables. They don't need to get lucky.
I was playing with a regular today at South Point. I was playing quarters, he was playing 50 cents. I mentioned the free pack of cigarettes for 1200 points. His reply was he didn't smoke. He plays two or three days a week so him turning down the pack each time is like turning down $800 in free play.
He also said that at the level he plays, it doesn't make sense to follow things like double point days.

[jsm2016]

Happy New Year, everyone.I found your post informative and wanted to share the following graph, which features about 80,000 hands of play from September to present. Substantially all of it is max-coin quarter play (>98%), with action split about evenly between Bonus Deuces (99.45%) and Jacks or Better (99.54%). Data include about $1,000 free play given by the casinos.Notice how volatile things can get! For this reason, I try to insure to 1% risk of ruin and religiously follow strategy.You will notice some steep declines early: $400 losses in the scope of only 2,500 hands on Bonus Deuces (volatility = 32). This game is an eater while waiting for premium bonuses and it took some time to recover--even with the 1% or so free play offered each day I played. Dancer will ask you to take pot shots with a 5-royal bankroll. To me, that is too risky.... For those interested, I offer a spreadsheet with detailed figures (including those shown in the plot above). If you would like the spreadsheet, please send a private message.Risk of ruin is described and shown for three popular games at the following link: http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/appendix/1/  Even FPDW requires a LOT of coverage.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]Never understood the reason you do not improve on your comp game despite
knowing full well Mr. Dancer needs it to be ahead. Perhaps that should
be your VP New Years Resolution for 2017, but up to you.[/quote]Comps only have value if you can use them.  A few years back I was lucky enough to find a young man in the Hard Rock Player's Club that took the time to explain their comp system in detail. I discovered to my amazement that I was an Elite level player and that I could get free rooms in Hollywood most any time I wanted.  Also, their mailer system is very complex.  He wrote down all the "key words" to look for in the mailers, explaining what each mailer was offering.  Since then, I have moved to max coin play (in Hollywood) and have become more aware of comps. We also started playing monthly at the Hollywood facility in addition to my weekly trips to Tampa.  We just booked our spring trip to Blackhawk Colorado.  Talking to the Ameristar player's representative, we were able to get a big discount on a week of room charges.  Cherokee NC gives us free rooms also.  Keep in mind that my wife and I are mostly quarter players, but we do play a lot of hands between us.  Before all this, the only thing I ever got from comps was some nice sunglasses and a T shirt.Last year when we played at South Point in Vegas we were told they were the only casino in Vegas that will convert comps to money.  From Bob Dancer I learned that some venues will kick back loses to big time players.  This changes the game significantly.  However, it does not affect an average hobby player like me.  If a casino offers comps that have value to me personally, I will do what I can to earn them.  If not, I don't see the point of risking a pile of my money just to get a free "something" I can't use or buy cheaper myself.

[rascal]

In my post, I made it quite clear that my relative said she did not know of any regular players who were ahead lifetime on VP alone, with no comps, promos or other bennies added in. Of course there are many regulars who are ahead when they factor in the extras. If you are pounding away at the machine day after day while deluding yourself that YOU have the special magical power to beat the mathematical odds over long-term play, then good luck to you, sir.

[FloridaPhil]

Unless you live in some parallel universe, the odds of a player coming out ahead lifetime on VP machine credits alone is so small it's almost not worth talking about.  Anything is possible, but my bet is you will never be shown any real facts to back up this claim.I can see two possible scenarios where this may be possible.  One is where a player hits a big jackpot putting him/her ahead lifetime, walks away and never darkens the light of a casino again.  The second is a player who years ago hit a string of big jackpots. Invests most of the money into CDs and the stock market.  Uses some of it to build a business based on his VP expertise, consults for big money and sells products to VP players all over the world.  Counting all the monetary value that came out of those initial wins plus all the comps that come from playing with income derived from the VP related business puts this person ahead lifetime.  Would this person deserve to call himself a long term VP winner?  YOU BET!!

[billryan]

The idea is to beat the casino, not to beat the actual machine. Playing the machine is the key to unlocking the secondary bonus game- the secret world of comp exploitation. That is where the money is. And the fun.