Shocking Numbers

[paco13]

Not to mention Phil, although you can offset wins with losses on Federal it could bump you into a higher bracket, like mine have, and eat up any return you would have received.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=paco13]Not to mention Phil, although you can offset wins with losses on Federal
it could bump you into a higher bracket, like mine have, and eat up any
return you would have received.[/quote]Agreed.  If you are looking at VP on a strictly profit/loss basis, taxes must be taken into consideration.  For example, every royal you hit above quarters is going to be taxed.  If the State is piling on more taxes, your returns are reduced by that amount.  Federal tax returns allow you to offset loses keeping them out of the equation for most players.  States that don't allow you to do this are putting players at an ever greater disadvantage.  It's like there are three house edges, the casino, federal tax  and state tax.  Players who play big in those states are paying big time for the thrill of a jackpot.  Personally, if I lived in one of those states and I was Jonesing to play VP, I would play as small as possible.  By the math, betting big under those conditions is not the best strategy.  Still, many people will do so regardless of the numbers.  The States know this,  that's why the tax works.Returning to my previous example of Michael Jordan playing rock, paper, scissors for $500K.  If you have so much money that no amount of loss concerns you, you might as well throw out all the strategy and just go for it.   You may lose millions of dollars, but you will have the thrill of a few big jackpots to remember.  

[onemoretry]

I play mainly $1 denom DDB and TDB. Mount Airy is where I play most often. The only games listed as playable at Seneca with same or higher returns than Mount Airy are PKM poker 99.95% @ $1 and $5 denoms, JOB 99.54% @ $5 and $10 denoms and BP 99.17% @! .25, .50 and $1. But, they are equal or better, not worse. Granted, there is a lot of crummy video poker at Seneca Niagara, but as long as they have the multiline 8/5 bonus poker machines, we will continue to go there. it's just over a two hour trip for us, though, nothing like your seven.

In fact, we plan to drop in there tomorrow, on our way to the Buffalo airport.

[paco13]

I will look for those next time I go there. Even though they may night have my favorites, there is much more for the family to enjoy there. Good luck to you tomorrow. Have you played @ any of the other Seneca casinos? I have not. Any recommendations?

[DAAnMAAn]

I had that situation a few years back when I had about 12k in w2g's, a situation I've never had due to sticking primarily with quarter play. At any rate, I could offset the wins with the losses in Vegas, no worrres about state tax here, but still counted as taxable income and was just enough to bump us into the next tax bracket which was a bummer indeed! So it was something I didn't take into consideration at the time but do now. Having said that, it of course affected total EV, expected value, of those hits... but as Dancer said, you get enough w2g's, its more manageable than getting a few. In other words, if you say, win 12k but get a tax penalty of say 3k, you still end up winning 8k profit, rather than hitting 3 or 4 non-taxable quarter royals for 1k, and winning profit of 3-4K.
Regardless, I agree that tax issues should be considering especially in unfriendly tax states where you can't write off losses and pay state as well as federal in winnings. What a drag.
As a side note, those stated should do what dottys does here in Nevada, send you 10% of your w2g hit as cash back.

[onemoretry]

I will look for those next time I go there. Even though they may night have my favorites, there is much more for the family to enjoy there. Good luck to you tomorrow. Have you played @ any of the other Seneca casinos? I have not. Any recommendations? They don't have a lot of the multiline machines. There are four triple/five plays at 50c denomination in the main casino area, and two $1 ones near the Chairman's lounge. There are other games on them, but 8/5 bonus poker is the highest return game.

Despite the small number of these machines, we rarely have any difficulty getting on them.

We've have not played at Buffalo Creek, but have visited Seneca Allegheny several times, mostly using it as a stopover on trips further south. They have an interesting 99.07% deuces and joker game there (single line, various denominations), and, what would be of interest to you, single line $1 or $5 9/6 DDB.

[paco13]

Good info, thanks. I may head out that way in the spring for a weekend.

[onemoretry]

Good info, thanks. I may head out that way in the spring for a weekend.
Assuming you have not been there for two or three years, you will find, if you go there, a dramatic change in the main casino floor layout.

[pokerpokerpoker]

My home state is bad for taxes, Indiana. If I hit a $2000 hand-pay I get $1917 after a $20 tip and state tax. That state tax money is gone for good.   In $1 DDB, the 2 taxable hands account for 4% of the return of the game. 4% of that 4% is lost to tax and tip. Which isn't enough to get excited about. But still, I wouldn't play a lot of $5 DDB (if I could); then ALL quads are taxable. Another game which is sorta off-limits is $1 tb+, where all quad aces pay $1200. I sure don't want to be getting frequent paper work on the bare minimum signer, $1200.

Feds, I don't know - tax lady handles all that.

[paco13]

Yes, it's been a few years.