Are VP Machines Completely Random?

[Raner]

I'm not a VP Poker Pro.
That being said if the training mode on this web site is 100% correct.
I know the strategy for: Jacks or Better Poker, Bonus Poker, A's and Faces Poker, DDB Poker.
I consider myself a recreational player. (Play around an average of 99% correct strategy)
I play enough to see a trend that bugs the hell out of me.
When playing the games above if you get:
Four consecutive cards to a straight that has a pair of nines or tens and the straight starts on the pair you keep the four cards to the straight.
Same applies to four cards to a flush with a none paying pair.
And if you draw two pairs you go for the full. Except on DDB when you have a pair of A's.
When I draw the card I get the same card on a different suit at lot more than you would think a completely random pick would be from 47 cards.
Have you all noticed this when you play or is my imagination playing tricks in my head.
If my math is correct there are 47 cards left on the deck to draw from. There are only two cards left from the pair that was broken up.
I ran across this short video and article on this very subject.
I just thought I'd share it with you.
To see what your thinking is on the matter.
Alan Mendelson (Video)
https://youtu.be/9DF2GuWa72A

Wizard of Odds Blog (Short Artical)
https://wizardofodds.com/blog/chat-with-rob-Fa La La La La.... La la la la/

[FloridaPhil]

I don't know RS and had never heard of him before becoming a member of this website.  Rob is accurate when he says math players want to believe the games are completely random and that the odds are the only thing that can predict long term outcomes. He desperately wants to believe otherwise.  I believe patterns as he calls it are a completely normal part randomness.  Humans see patterns and believe there must be a reason behind what they see.  When pressed for verification, Rob has never been able to prove he can take advantage of VP patterns.  I do not claim to be a mathematician.   I have noticed VP patterns myself, especially in wild card games.  Of all the people currently on this website, I believe I have invested more playing time attempting to capitalize on these patterns than anyone.  I can tell you I failed miserably. There is absolutely no reason for a casino to rig the games.  The odds are mostly negative anyway and I seriously doubt anyone on this earth can play like a computer forever.   I also believe claims of long term riches totally based on video poker play are inflated.  If someone wants to believe otherwise, fine with me.Each and every error costs you some return.  Adding in playing errors, machine malfunctions, variance and just plain luck, my estimate is the casino is making at least 5% return on video poker alone.  That's a pretty good return on the billions run through VP games each year.  Advantage players cut this down considerably, but overall VP is good for the bottom line or they wouldn't offer it.Your question about the games on this website is a valid one.  I have been involved in serious computer programming projects since the early seventies.  The list of firms that still utilize my services as a consultant is lengthy.  Based on my experience and my observations, I have my doubts that the cards on this website's games are selected by a RNG.  The patterns so prominent with RNG games just don't seem to happen here.  There's no money involved anyway, so who cares?   Perhaps webman may want to comment.  I would be interested in what he has to say.

[Raner]

Hi Phil...
So your in Computer Programming...
I wish I could see the code for VP machines. Just to
see how many times the word "if" is used on the code.
While I'm at it. I would love to see how many times they
use:
(if blank = less then 0 then do this)
(if blank = more then 0 then do this)
(if blank = zero then do this)
Not the right language for code but you get my point.

[alpax]

I am not a professional Computer Programmer, but from a Mathematics background I do know for a fact that conditionals if/else/elseif or switch/case/default are an essential part of any software/hardware design.

If you do ever see open source projects, you will find too many of these if statements.

[ukaserex]

The phrase "perception is reality" may apply here.

Like the OP, I have noticed the same patterns of behavior; enough so, that I began to write it down when it happened. About twice every 750 hands. It also didn't happen that way about 4 times within that same 750 hands. So, it does seem to happen more than it should, but not so often that I question the randomness of it.

I have noticed that when dealt a 4 card royal, the 5th card is a deuce more often than I care to think about.

On this very site, on Feb 20, I got quad aces back to back. Hard to imagine that was random, but it was. And the same 5th card was a jack, instead of the preferred 2,3 or 4. In the same middle position both times.

Perception is reality.

[Raner]

Hi Alpax... I'm not a coder but I read code pretty good.
What I meant was that I would love to see the code of a VP machine to see how the code reads to execute a particular function...

[FloridaPhil]

I'm not sure it is possible to write computer "code" that is truly 100% random.  I suppose you could use some adaptation of prime number multiplication or division tables, but even then some constants would creep into the calculations affecting true randomness.The RNG accomplishes this task by shuffling the same numbers millions of times a second.  My understanding is when you touch the deal button the chip stops and the cards represented by the numbers are displayed.  This is the accepted way randomness is produced in a slot machine.   I doubt the State Regulators know anything about how all this works, they just run the test programs and the machine passes or it fails.  I suspect the only ones who really know are the game manufacturers themselves.  Considering the size and diversification of the customer base and the penalty of "rigging" the games, I don't believe any conspiracy exists.Where I totally disagree with RS is his notion that he can somehow use VP patterns to his advantage.  This is a totally ridiculous notion in my opinion and one he has never been able to prove.   So, we are faced with some people who claim to have made millions relying solely on a math based strategy and others who claim they can predict patterns.  As far as I'm concerned both group's claims are simply marketing.  If the games are truly 100% random, no strategy is 100% guaranteed to produce a profit.  The best strategies we have are at best only 90% accurate.  As for me, I'll take all the help I can get. 

[Raner]

Hi Ukaserex...
I do not think this site has a RNG I think it runs of software to simulate a RNG.
That being said. I've gotten four A's with a kicker, Then when the attendant ask me to clear the machine I was dealt the four A's with a none kicker card, I went for the kicker but did not get it. It only happened to me this one time it was at Bally's on a 9/6 DDB machine a few years back...

[pokerpokerpoker]

Bang away at this game long enough and you will see all sorts of crazy stuff.

A while ago, at the local casino, I was playing tb+ and every time (or so it seemed) that everytime I had a good hand to draw at, a five would appear on the draw. When finally dealt trip fives, sure enough, the forth five appeared.

[onemoretry]

I'm not a VP Poker Pro.......
I know the strategy for: Jacks or Better Poker, Bonus Poker, A's and Faces Poker, DDB Poker..........
Four consecutive cards to a straight with a none paying pair you keep the four cards to the straight.
Same applies to four cards to a flush with a none paying pair.
And if you draw two pairs you go for the full. Except on DDB when you have a pair of A's.
That is not totally correct. In JOB or bonus poker, the low non paying pair is a better hold than four consecutive straight cards.