Single Coin VP Observations

[alpax]

I was not planning on participating on this thread, but since that "someone" seems to be me as I mentioned what I heard on last week's GWAE podcast I'll chime in.

For the record FP has issues with comprehending what people say and this was one of them.

What I brought up on that thread was that the VP playing conditions have changed where it became harder on the player to beat the game. Many of the players that are not willing to put in additional effort because it is not worth their while are the ones retiring.

As for Mr. Dancer, he said he has enough to live by and the specific part I brought up was that he will no longer spend hundreds of hours to memorize or grasp the last hundredths percentage of EV of a video poker game. The penalty exceptions are usually harder to master than the basic strategy. Mr. Dancer will use that time for other leisure activities but will always be on a lookout for good opportunities.

It is just my own belief that the whole motive of this post was because FP had such a bad run at VP over the weekend to a point where he thought that he should have single coined. Though FP strongly urges members here to switch from DDB or TDB to Deuces Wild because if the lesser swings, what is not mentioned is how ugly DW can get. Most of FP's strongest supporters do not even play single coin, why spend tremendous amount of effort (it will take me 3 hours to write something like this) to offer such bad advice to everyone?

[olds442jetaway]

Personally, I don't mind these discussions at all. That said, there is one way to put these threads to rest forever. Convince the casino management to pay the correct amount for the Royal for single coin play. In the thousands of machines that Mohegan Sun has, there are still two that do this and it is only on the spin poker option. I have been having a ball playing the dollar game and lately Joker Kings which I know few here probably play. it pays 940 bucks for a single coin Royal without the joker. The other game I play is 98.8 percent Bonus Deuces Wild on the same machine. These two machines which I suspect management to yank one day soon are so busy that I can only get them in the middle of the night. If you live in a state like I do that being Ct. you can save a nice amount on your state taxes because a single coin Royal on Joker Kings does not trigger a W-2G which is automatically fully taxable in Ct even if you have the records to write it off and show a loss on your Fed return. Don't I know that. Last year 150k in W-2Gs, nice big loss on the Fed return to write off all of the winnings, yet had to pay the state over 8k just on the gross W-2Gs.

[FAA]

Even similar variance JOB can get ugly. Yesterday I lost $50. Tried three machines, each an icebox. I had to then dabble in Sliding Scale dollars elsewhere, after an ATM trip, to recover the funds. Time that could have been better spent with a relaxing lunch. Fed up on an unfed day, but bankroll intact. It's a trade off.

[FloridaPhil]

Personally, I don't care what Mr. Dancer does.  I also don't care what happens at South Point, Red Rock or anywhere else with positive VP games because they have no relevance to the games I play.  What I want to talk about on this forum is what happens to players outside of Nevada.  I believe the games available to me are much more reflective of actual game conditions across the US.Let's talk about real VP conditions in my area of the country.  The most popular VP game by far in the Southeast is 8/5 DDB.  The max coin odds on this game are 96.786%.  The house edge is 3.214%.  The single coin odds are 95.554%.  The house edge is 4.446%.This assumes you play 100% computer perfect and royals come every 40,000 hands.  Both of these assumptions may not be accurate.If you play max coin quarters, each and every time you hit the deal button you lose 3.214% of $1.25 or a little over .04 cents.  If you play 500 hands an hour you lose an average of $20 an hour.  If you push the game to 1000 hands an hour, you lose $40 an hour, probably much more due to errors.If you play single coin quarters, each and every time you hit the deal
button you lose 4.446% of .25 or a little more than 1 cent.  If you play
500 hands an hour you lose about $5 an hour.  Anyone who has played 8/5 DDB longer than a day will tell you losing $100 an hour is common.  If you play this game for a week you can easily lose $1,000 or more.If the possibility of experiencing a max coin royal every 40,000 hands is worth the cost, do it.    If not, play single coin.Spending time on this forum talking about positive VP has no value to a weekend player in Biloxi, Cherokee or Florida.   I think those players want to know how to cut their losses, not gain an edge that never comes.  This forum is suppose to be about learning.  Let's teach someone something they can use instead of a history lesson from the year 2000 or an obscure opportunity that requires plane fare.

[FAA]

I don't mind these discussions at all. These two machines which I suspect management to yank one day soon are
so busy that I can only get them in the middle of the night.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------No crap, Olds. You're making out like a bandit on those quirky machines up there! You must be laughing your butt off at all of us while racking up $150,000 in WGs. Spin and cash in. What could be better? Somehow management has kept those two dinosaurs around at MS and it's a Darwinian struggle to get on one of them, requiring your burdensome middle of the night strategy. They must still be profitable as hell. Management still likes high profit margins. 

[FloridaPhil]

At one time we had one small Racino in Miami that offered the royal bonus for less than max coin play.  We played the heck out of those machines.  They were cheap to play and worked especially well with CS.   Unfortunately, they pulled them two years ago.  It was great while it lasted.I have no problem discussing positive VP games as long as it doesn't monopolize the entire forum or it's proponents don't try to push us off.  Positive game strategies should remain on the Strategy Forum.  This forum should be about the majority of VP games, which are negative.

[Carcounter]

I just can't bring myself to play games that have less than 99% payback,.just the way I am. I only play the 99.69% Super Double Bonus or 9/6 Job at Borgata. They have 2x slot dollars all July, which I believe is .25% plus .25% comp dollars. Not a bad play for a recreational player.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=carcounter]I just can't bring myself to play games that have less than 99% payback,.just the way I am.[/quote]If I had a choice I wouldn't play them either.   To us video poker is nothing more than recreation.  Other recreation comes with a cost, why not VP?   All playing single coin does is buy you a cheaper ticket for sitting in the cheap seats.  These days I choose to sit in the front row and pay the price of playing max coins.   My only reason for posting about single coin play is to tell someone how to get in the game at a discount. 

[Carcounter]

It's not enjoyable to me if I know I don't have a reasonable chance to win.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=carcounter]It's not enjoyable to me if I know I don't have a reasonable chance to win.
[/quote]Totally understood.   You can win playing single coin as well.  The question is how much do you consider a win?  If you win $62.50 is that a win or does it take $1,000?  When you play negative VP you are going to pay a price for your wins.  The question is how much are you willing to pay?  Pretty simple really.