Single Coin VP Observations

[FloridaPhil]

Between 2014 and 2015, I played single coin quarter VP 90% of the time.   My primary reason was to reduce my cost to play seriously negative video poker games.  At the time my wife and I were being offered three day junkets to the Beau Rivage in Biloxi Mississippi.   Our plane fare and hotel rooms were fully comped.  We took these trips every few months and played from early in the morning until evening each day only taking time off for food and bathroom breaks.  The VP odds at the Beau Rivage were in the 95-96% range.  Despite playing nearly perfectly, our average loss was around $1,500 to $3,000 each trip.  In an attempt to reduce our losses, I switched to a single coin quarter play strategy.The purpose of this post is not to teach anyone anything or convince anyone to play single coin as I rarely ever play single coin anymore.  I do not claim to be an expert.  However, I do believe I have more single coin VP playing experience than anyone on this forum.   I am posting my thoughts and experiences for the benefit of anyone who may consider single coin VP.    I may not be posting on this forum that much longer and I want to clear up any false assumptions I or anyone else may have made regarding my single coin play strategy.My observations of single coin play over this period of time are as follows.   Why Would Anyone Play Single Coin VP?Very few players "want"  to play single coin VP.   Recreational players usually find themselves switching to single coin when they are running out of money.   Occasionally, a player on a tight budget may choose single coin play as a way to extend their bankroll and/or play longer.    A player using mathematics to calculate VP odds may be surprised to discover playing single coin in certain casinos at a higher denomination earns better odds than playing max coins at a lower denomination. From time to time, a player may have the desire to play VP in a seriously negative video poker environment.  Cruise ship casinos are a good example of this.  It is not uncommon to find the house edge on these games in excess of 5%.   During the time I played single coin VP in Biloxi, the odds were actually worse than a cruise ship due to State gambling taxes.Single Coin VP Is Not For EveryoneMost recreational players play for the thrill of a jackpot.  In some VP games like Jacks or Better, the Royal Flush is the only serious jackpot.  Removing the Royal Flush bonus is like going to a Fourth of July Fireworks display without the noise and colored lights.  Beginners should never play single coin VP because the experience of hitting a short coin royal is very depressing and your friends will say you are an idiot for playing that way.I only have access to negative VP games, so for me the determining factor for single coin VP play is time.  In a few hours of play, anything can happen.  You can hit a royal just as easily playing a 97% VP game as one with 101% odds.   When playing negative VP games, the longer you play the more your losses add up.   If you are going to play seriously negative VP games for days on end,  it is very unlikely you will hit enough royals to cover your losses.Single Coin Play Is A Negative Game Strategy OnlyA positive VP game is any VP game where the odds plus the comps and incentives are more than 100%.  A negative VP game is any game where the overall expected return is less than 100%.  When playing a positive game perfectly, the player plays with a potential long term "profit" on each and every hand.  When playing a negative VP game, the overall return is negative creating an accumulated loss on every hand.   Your short term results may vary.  Given enough time the math is always right.When playing single coin, the majority of the time you are giving up the royal bonus.   For example, in most VP games a single coin royal flush pays 250 coins.  If you are playing max coins at 5 coins a hand, the royal flush pays 4,000 coins.  In quarter play the difference is $62.50 vs. one thousand dollars.   This is a huge difference.   However, a royal flush is a very rare hand.  In Jacks or Better it's comes about one every 40,000 hands.  In percentages, a max coin royal flush is normally a little over 1% of the potential return.Never play single coin in any positive VP game!   If you do, you are costing yourself money.  In addition, the loss of the royal flush bonus could easily turn a potentially winning game into a long term loser. How can playing single coin reduce short term losses?    At first this seems like a contradiction.   How could giving up 1% of the return save money?  The reason is you are "investing" less money playing a negative game.  For example, a max coin quarter player playing 500 hands an hour "invests" $1.25 times 500 or $625 an hour.   A single coin player playing 500 hands an hour "invests" .25 times 500 or $125 an hour.  Deducting the house edge from the total amount wagered and comparing the two shows playing less overall money costs less.  The potential loss playing single coin is 1% higher, but the overall monetary loss is less because the amount "invested" is 5 times smaller.Does Playing Single Coin Pay Better?No.   Some players believe this to be true.   Players only remember the good hands.  Playing single coin allows a player to experience playing more hands with the same bankroll.  For example, a quarter player with a $100 bankroll is guaranteed to play a minimum of 80 max coin hands.   The same quarter player with the same bankroll is guaranteed to play a minimum of 400 single coin hands.   With 5 times as many hands guaranteed, the chances of hitting a jackpot are 5 times more likely.  The jackpots are 1/5th as much, but the player only remembers the cards not the money.   The cards don't know how much you bet or how many coins you play.Are There Any Advantages to Playing Single Coin?Playing single coin allows a player playing negative VP games to play more hands with less money.   For example, suppose you are taking a day long junket to a local casino.  The bus ride is free and they may even give you some free play.   The bus arrives at the casino at 9:30 AM and leaves at 3:00 PM.  This means than you could potentially be playing VP for 5 1/2 Hours.  Suppose you have a gambling budget of $150 a day.  The games at this casino are all in the 97-98% range.  The math shows you will lose 2-3% on every hand even if you can play perfectly.  If you play max coin quarters, there is an excellent chance your $150 bankroll will run out and you will bust.  The math says playing single coin costs you another percent, but you will have a minimum of 400 hands before you bust.   If you pick the best game and play as perfect as you can, playing single coin will probably last until the bus comes.  What you are doing is trading the jackpot "potential" for longer playing time.How Do You Deal With a Single Coin Royal Flush?If you have never hit a max coin royal flush, don't play single coin!  Under negative VP game conditions single coin play can be cheaper to play, but you should be aware of the consequences.   If you hit a single coin quarter royal on most VP games you lose the $1,000 royal bonus and are paid $62.50.  This means you gave up $937.50 to be able to play 25 cents a hand over an average of 40,000 hands.  If you never hit a royal, you came out ahead.  The more royals you hit, the more you lose. If you are going to play single coin VP, you must adjust your thinking to consider a single coin royal as just another paying hand.   When playing single quarter Jacks or Better, a four of a kind pays 25 coins or $6.25.  A straight flush pays 50 coins or $12.50.  All things considered, $62.50 for a royal isn't a bad jackpot considering you are only investing a quarter a hand.   Looking at this another way, $62.50 is not $1,000, but it didn't cost you the house edge on 40,000 hands times $1.25 to earn it.If you are going to play single coin, stick with quarters. The whole object of playing single coin is to play negative VP games longer with
the same money.   Moving up to single coin dollars or higher
defeats the purpose of playing single coin in the first place.  In
addition, never play 2-3 or 4 coins.  Play only one coin or max.Max Coin Nickel VP vs. Single Coin QuartersWe don't have nickel VP where we play.  In Biloxi they have nickel VP, but the max coin nickel odds are worse than the single coin quarter odds.  Use software like Dancer's VPW to check the odds before making your decision.  Playing single coin nickel VP is the worst of all possible options.  If you must play that cheap, you should probably stay on this website where you can play VP for free.  Keep in mind that single coin play strategy is different than max coin strategy.  Again, check with VPW for optimal play.Single Coin Play and CompsYou should also be aware that playing single coin will negatively affect your comps.   If free play and "free stuff" have value to you, don't play single coin.   Comps are part of your winnings.   When playing single coin you are trading the royal bonus for a cheaper cost to play negative games.  The royal bonus is already worth about 1%.  Giving up comps just adds to your cost to play.We are just now beginning to see casinos block the coin select button.  They are doing this to prevent a player from "gaming" the system by taking up floor time on an expensive machine without paying full price.  If playing single coin didn't reduce your cost to play, they wouldn't be doing this.Is Playing Single Coin Right For You?Probably not.   Most
VP players play negative games, but most don't play nearly as long as we do.  Playing negative VP games means you are paying
to experience jackpots.   If you want the most "experience" for your
money, play max coins.   By playing single coin you will be able to play
many more hands with the same bankroll.   When playing negative games
wagering less means you will lose less long term, but the cost in terms
of pure excitement or anticipation could be substantial.   What is
hitting a max coin royal flush worth to you?   Answer this question before considering playing short coin as an option.A better option for players who play negative games is to seek out quarter games with odds closer to 100% and play max coins.  With perfect play, the long term cost to play these games is minimal and the comps have value.  These games are out there, but you need to look for them.  Currently, the best quarter game we have available to us is 98.9% deuces wild.  We drive twice the distance to play these games, but it's definitely worth the extra effort.  Playing at denominations where you are not comfortable is never a good option regardless of the odds.  Another option is to play less.  It could be a better strategy than trying to limit your loses over a longer playing time.Are You A Gambler Or A Player?Why do you play VP?  Do you like playing the game itself or is it the anticipation of a jackpot and the thrill when you hit one?   If you are a gambler, you need the anticipation and reward of jackpots and the bigger the better.  If you are a player the jackpots are nice, but the experience of the game itself is enough to satisfy you.  Maybe you are like most players and want them both?  If you are going to play negative VP, there will be a cost.  Playing single coin can reduce this cost, but there will always be a trade off.If you are playing the game for profit your decision is easy.  Play only positive games and play only max coins.   If you play negative games you are hoping for a profit, but the odds are against you.   The more negative the odds, the more it costs to play.    Only you can decide what a max coin royal flush is worth.    

[pav845]

   You literally have two thousand five posts just like this on this forum. Everyone on this forum is aware of your choices. Why do we need to see ever again. Enough

[Vman96]

    You literally have two thousand five posts just like this on this forum. Everyone on this forum is aware of your choices. Why do we need to see ever again. Enough

LOL

But this one is pretty well thought out. Generally max coins is best, imo, but there are exceptions.

[FloridaPhil]

It took me a while to put this together.  I am sorry if my work is not appreciated by everyone.   My VP world is not 100% games and cash back.  All I have ever tried to do on this forum is address the issues of the average player I meet where we play.  Trust me, there are no APs waiting to get on the machines that I play.  These players are almost totally forgotten on this forum or brushed aside as being ignorant or unintelligent.   This is not generally the case, but we do have a much different view of the game than you may.The reason I took the time to write this is to hopefully put to rest any more discussions of single coin play.  I have come full circle on this subject and have said all I can say.   This forum is getting pretty boring.  I suppose it's because video poker is so limited as a subject.  Perhaps someone can think outside the box and come up with some new material. 

[billryan]

A rather simple way of putting to end these mundane discussions is not to start a thread on it every couple of days.

[FAA]

The complaints about the post are much more noisome, as they simply carp without any stimulating nugget of thought. When you browse through on your TV channels, do you stick with a program you dislike? Apply the same procedures here. Problem solved and welcome.

[billryan]

You want a pearl of wisdom?
Playing a game you can't beat is throwing away your money.
Playing that game at less than perfect strategy is simply throwing away more money.
Some addicts snort their money up their nose. Others throw it away on machines they know they can't beat.

[FloridaPhil]

Sometimes I feel like I'm on this forum with a bunch of Moon Men.  Sure you can still find a few positive VP games, but most low denomination players have never seen one and never will.Maybe we should take a survey of all the members of this website and ask
them who plays negative VP games?   If everyone who does takes Dancer's
advice and quits playing them, I will  never again have a problem
getting a seat.I have always said playing single coin quarters is a strategy that should only be considered when playing seriously negative VP games.  If you don't play those games, it has nothing to do with you.What the majority of today's recreational VP players want is up-to-date real information on how to play the games near their home in 2017, not something rattled off from a 15 year old Dancer book.  Someone posted the other day that Dancer was retiring from VP.  Could it be the games he can beat are gone?  They surely are for most of us.Playing the best games you can find with computer strategy is worthwhile.  If those games are 97% or worse, losing faster than you can win is not anything that should be taught to anyone!  

[billryan]

Oh, Phil. You almost managed to go three days without posting about Mr Dancer. That must be a record for you.
Did you get cold sweats?
Where did someone post that he was retiring? He has a new semester of classes starting next month?
More BS from the fountain of misinformation.

https://youtu.be/WOTQ5cgDpJY

[FAA]

I do play perfect strategy, albeit on the simplest VP. I'm willing to endure the disaster of a one coin dollar or three coin quarter RF in exchange for not busting in an hour flat. 99.5 drops to 97.5. It's a suboptimal bargain. But that's my comfort zone.