Complete Strategy Adjustments for 9/5 & 9/6 DDB

[Vman96]

Situation 5 should be clarified and possibly reevaluated.

Your title description reads like all KQ or KJ off is better than Ace only in 9/5 DDB. The only time this looks to be true is if you have BOTH a straight flush penalty card AND a flush penalty card like your example.

A VAST majority of the time Ace only is better than KQ and KJ off in both paytables.

By the way, thanks for looking into the strategy differences here. I'm sure this took awhile.

[billryan]

Most likely past results DO factor into mailers. Last year I won 5 figures and mail was dismal. But, as long as they keep sending it I will gladly accept. Through fp and a good one a couple days ago, I have clawed back a good share of that bad run.

Going forward, any play above quarters will not be TDB. Giving up hundreds of credits in 3 of a kind pays an hour makes a bust out quick and likely. The higher payback lured me in, but I don't have the pockets for swings that big. I haven't played the TTB in some time.

At Southpoint, past results absolutely affect mailings. That's why a game like Ultimate X or TDB is good If one has the proper bankroll.
Unlike JOB or even NSUDs, those two games will give you some horrific losing sessions. String a couple of disastrous losing sessions together and your mailin will be large. Then when Variance turns your way, all is right in the world.

[alpax]

Not a problem.

I have something in the works relating to 9/5 DDB, but I felt this guide could very well also help players who play specialty games where 9/5 DDB is typically the best option, I know you are not into the last hundredth percent EV. It is good to know the strategies are more than 99% alike, never knew that until I did the analysis.

I was working on a script that can effectively compare holds between paytables which I think can be useful in the future.

PPP suggested a good idea about strategy adjustments for progressives at different levels. I will do that afterwards.

Might also do

- 9/6 JoB to 8/5 Bonus Poker despite the difference being only .008% (99.166 => 99.158)
- 9/6 DDB to 9/6 TDB for those who think they are due for a premium quad (not recommended for serious players).

I'll take a look into Situation 5 some more and see if the situation applies. One of the first two games I studied was 9/6 JoB and 9/6 DDB, I just made that assumption from 9/6 DDB.

A26, A27, A28, A36, A37, A38, A46, A47, A48 suited will make KQ or KJ offsuit a superior play than just Ace in 9/6 DDB.

I also need to look at the EV difference for the reverse situation using 9/5 DDB to 9/6 DDB that Mr. Dancer brought up, but it is only a 0.01% difference.

[Vman96]

A26, A27, A28, A36, A37, A38, A46, A47, A48 suited will make KQ or KJ offsuit a superior play than just Ace in 9/6 DDB.



You mean in 9/5 DDB? But when I first read situation 5 (I admit I read it quickly at first), I comprehended it as holding KQ and KJ off was generally the correct play in 9/5 DDB, and that is definitely not true.

You are much better off holding Ace only always instead of KQ or KJ off always in any DDB game. But ideally you learn the penalty situation for DDB when flushes pay 5 for 1. That is, a straight flush PLUS a flush penalty makes KQ and KJoff better than Ace only. And now I know that thanks to you!

But also worth noting for myself since I play a lot of it at TAG Lounge, Ace only is always better than KQ and KJoff in Triple Bonus Plus.

[alpax]

I was able to look deeper into the KQ and KJ offsuit versus Ace situation for 9/5 and 9/6 DDB. I also used the WoO strategy calculator tool to get a better visual representation as well, and I was clearly able to see Vman's claim. Unfortunately, I only knew the 9/6 DDB strategy at the advanced level coming into this, did not ever review 9/5 DDB strategy. I can assure I got all the differences in.

On both of the strategy charts, Ace is superior to KQ and KJ offsuit. As a basis, a player should prefer the Ace all times should they play for recreation like Vman stated.

On the exception charts is where it differs

9/6 DDB has a few entries and it confirms with what I've mentioned.



9/5 DDB has more entries including the ones stated in 9/6 DDB. A straight and flush penalty with the kicker cards 23/24/34. It also has 56/57/58 flush penalties to the Ace which 9/6 DDB does not.



I will modify the description to Situation #5 to include, in addition to the general 9/6 DDB rules, a straight and a flush penalty (23/24/34) to the Ace will also make KQ or KJ offsuit the better play. In addition to 56/57/58 suited flush penalty to the Ace.

I hope to encapsulate all the situations with the following:

1.     In 9/5 DDB, prefer KQ and KJ off suited with 56/57/58 same suit with the Ace in addition to the 26/27/28/36/37/38/46/47/48 seen in 9/6 DDB

2.     In 9/5 DDB, the Queen Jack off suited versus the Ace situation seen in 9/6 DDB is different. In 9/6 DDB if there is an 8 (along with a 6 or 7), Ace is superior over Queen/Jack as long as there is no flush penalty between the 6/7 + 8 and Ace, it is not the case for 9/5 DDB where Queen Jack will be superior to the Ace.

The only situation to look for is if there is a 9 present. If there no flush 2,3,4,5,6,7 penalty as the 5th card to the Ace in 9/6 DDB, the Ace is a better play. In 9/5 DDB, it is only a subset where if a 9 is present, a non-flush 5,6,7 penalty will make the Ace a better play.

3.     In 9/5 DDB, prefer KQ and KJ off suited if there 2 kicker cards 23/24/34 are present and one of them is a flush penalty to the Ace.

Much appreciated for the heads up Vman. I want to avoid providing wrong information.

[asteroid]

Great stuff Alpax, thanks for posting this.

[alpax]

Great stuff Alpax, thanks for posting this.



I appreciate the comment!

I had to fix #2 for Situation 5 again regarding the 8 rank situation, I had it reversed which was bad.

In 9/5 DDB, the Queen Jack off suited versus the Ace situation seen in 9/6 DDB is different. In 9/6 DDB if there is an 8 (along with a 6 or 7), Ace is superior over Queen/Jack as long as there is no flush penalty between the 6/7 + 8 and Ace, it is not the case for 9/5 DDB where Queen Jack will be superior to the Ace.

[pokerpokerpoker]

Dang, even on games I "know", reading all these exceptions makes my head swim. I might need to dust off the old "Winners Guide" and read that one chapter I never seem to get through.

[alpax]

I think the Advanced section on the Winners Guide (I have it for Double Bonus and Deuces Wild) is a worth the effort to read for players that have plans to play often in the future. I think Mr. Dancer and the late Liam Daily do really well at explaining every situation in great details.

I learned 9/6 DDB through the WoO strategy calculator and VPW / VideoPoker.com mobile app. Spent several hours, I think Winner's Guide can cut down that time by more than 80% compared to someone learning on their own.

I initially tried to make it a simple adjustment for 9/6 DDB players, but without the details to situation #5 and a few others it will not cover all the basis.

I wanted to at least post up last night the Red Black DDB adjustments which was the motive for 9/6 DDB players to ultimately adjust to 9/5 Red Black DDB if they play in areas where 9/6 DDB is not an option.

I do see that you have 8/5 Red Black DDB at your local, but losing a credit for the full house is more costly than gaining the 40 for 1 payout for AKQJT colored straights.