Complete Strategy Adjustments for 9/5 & 9/6 DDB

[alpax]

Most players who play video poker for enjoyment (or the “fun” factor) tend to prefer Double Double Bonus (DDB) over other game variants. The 9/6 pay schedule is considered to be the “full pay” variant for DDB in most states outside of Nevada. However, there are specialty games on this website that have 9/5 set at the best pay schedule option for the DDB game variant. For players who wish to enjoy these specialty games at a live casino for real money wagers and want to play at his/her best, this will be for you.

The player must be proficient in either the 9/5 DDB or 9/6 DDB strategy. The adjustments listed will apply to adjust from one pay schedule to the other.

These are some of the specialty games that utilize the standard strategy for 9/5 DDB and may have a decent return of over 98% which may be acceptable to many DDB players:

Hyper Bonus Poker
Magic Deal Poker
Barnyard Poker
Powerhouse Poker
Double Super Times Pay



But first the good news: Playing the 9/6 DDB strategy on a 9/5 DDB game or vice versa will have a minimal impact!

Out of the 2598960 possible 5 card deals from a 52-card deck, 22524 will have different optimal card holds between 9/5 and 9/6 DDB. More than 99% of the strategy between 9/5 and 9/6 DDB are exact.

When a player utilizes optimal 9/6 DDB strategy on the 9/5 DDB pay schedule for every possible card deal, the overall return will be at 97.8449% rather than the 97.8729% return when played with the appropriate 9/5 DDB optimal strategy.

When a player utilizes optimal 9/5 DDB strategy on the 9/6 DDB pay schedule for every possible card deal, the overall return will be at 98.9705% rather than the 98.9808% return when played with the appropriate 9/6 DDB optimal strategy.

Those that wish to earn the last 0.028% (9/6 => 9/5) or 0.01% (9/5 => 9/6) will need to make the following adjustments. The adjustments will be in descending order of the impact of the returns. If anything, memorize Category 1 and 2.

Category 1 – The Single Most Important Difference

Situation #1 – Four to a Flush with Three to a Royal Flush including an Ace and Ten

Important Note: This situation alone is worth more than half the EV difference between 9/5 and 9/6 DDB

Dealt Cards: A ♥ 3 ♥ 10 ♥ J ♥ K ♦

9/6 DDB Hold: A ♥ 3 ♥ 10 ♥ J ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♥ 10 ♥ J ♥

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.6337 to 0.7216 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.01714%
Number of Occurrences: 3168

Category 2 – Frequently Appearing Differences

Situation #2 – 3 Card Flush with King, Ten, and 2/3/4/5/6/7/8

Dealt Cards: 3 ♦ 4 ♥ 9 ♣ 10 ♥ K ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: 4 ♥ 10 ♥ K ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: K ♥

Possible Explanation: In 9/6 DDB, this is the only unique 3 card Flush to hold that is not within Straight Flush or Royal Flush range. In 9/5 DDB, when this situation arises, just hold the King.

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.1835 to 0.1905
Total Return Impact: 0.00756%
Number of Occurrences: 5220

Situation #3 – Ace and Jack/Queen/King suited over Inside Straight Ace thru Ten with no Flush Penalty to the high cards

Dealt Cards: A ♥ 2 ♦ 10 ♣ Q ♦ K ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: A ♥ K ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♥ K ♥ Q ♦ 10 ♣

Possible Explanation: In 9/6 DDB, normally when a player has 4 to Inside Straight with 3 high cards with 2 of them suited, if the last card is not of the same suit as the 2 high cards (aka Flush penalty), hold the 2 suited high cards. If it is Queen Jack suited, hold it regardless of Flush penalties. In 9/5 DDB, when this situation arises when the Ace is suited with another high card, go for the Inside Straight.

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.00771
Total Return Impact: 0.000292%
Number of Occurrences: 4920

Category 3 – Common Differences

Situation #4 – Three to a Straight Flush with One Gap and an Ace

Dealt Cards: A ♦ 3 ♦ 4 ♥ 5 ♥ 7 ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: 4 ♥ 5 ♥ 7 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♦

Possible Explanation: In 9/5 DDB, since the Flush is worth less, Straight Flush attempts are worth less as well.

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.000813 to 0.1421523 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.000788%
Number of Occurrences: 2316

Situation #5 – Ace and King/Jack or Queen/Jack or King/Queen

Dealt Cards: A ♥ 5 ♥ 6 ♥ Q ♦ K ♣
9/6 DDB Hold: A ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: Q ♦ K ♣

Possible Explanation:

1.     In 9/5 DDB, prefer KQ and KJ off suited with 56/57/58 same suit with the Ace in addition to the 26/27/28/36/37/38/46/47/48 seen in 9/6 DDB

2.     In 9/5 DDB, the Queen Jack off suited versus the Ace situation seen in 9/6 DDB is different. In 9/6 DDB if there is an 8 (along with a 6 or 7), Ace is superior over Queen/Jack as long as there is no flush penalty between the 6/7 + 8 and Ace, it is not the case for 9/5 DDB where Queen Jack will be superior to the Ace.

The only situation to look for is if there is a 9 present. If there no flush 2,3,4,5,6,7 penalty as the 5th card to the Ace in 9/6 DDB, the Ace is a better play. In 9/5 DDB, it is only a subset where if a 9 is present, a non-flush 5,6,7 penalty will make the Ace a better play.

3.     In 9/5 DDB, prefer KQ and KJ off suited if there 2 kicker cards 23/24/34 are present and one of them is a flush penalty to the Ace.

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.000813 to 0.01175
Total Return Impact: 0.0001425%
Number of Occurrences: 2064

Situation #6 – High Pair over 3 to Royal Flush [JQK and QJT]

Dealt Cards: J ♥ J ♦ 5 ♣ Q ♥ K ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: J ♥ Q ♥ K ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♥ J ♦

Possible Explanation: In 9/5 DDB, high pairs always beats 3 to a Royal Flush

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.08418 to 0.17206 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.0011363%
Number of Occurrences: 1404

Situation #7 – 3 to Straight Flush with Gaps and 4 to Inside Straight with 2 High Cards

Dealt Cards: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 10 ♥ J ♦ Q ♣
9/6 DDB Hold: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 10 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: 8 ♥ 10 ♥ J ♦ Q ♣

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.04163 to 0.06938
Total Return Impact: 0.0004164%
Number of Occurrences: 1260

Situation #8 – Ace and Jack/Ten suited

Dealt Cards: A ♥ 4 ♣ 5 ♥ 10 ♦ J ♦
9/6 DDB Hold: 10 ♦ J ♦
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♥

Possible Explanation: In 9/5 DDB, the Jack-Ten suited versus the Ace situation seen in 9/6 DDB is neglected.

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.00039 to 0.03986
Total Return Impact: 0. 0001641%
Number of Occurrences: 1080

Situation #9 – King and Jack off suited Versus Jack and Ten Suited

EDIT I forgot to include that for 5 for 1 Flush games, it also takes into account if 8 or 9 is present on top of a Flush penalty card. If 8 or 9 is present, KJ unsuited over JT suited.

Dealt Cards: 4 ♦ 8 ♣ 10 ♠ J ♠ K ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: 10 â™  J â™ 
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♠ K ♥

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.016035 to 0.030836 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.00009226%
Number of Occurrences: 648

Category 4 – Rare and Nearly Negligible Adjustments

Total impact not disclosed because it is so tiny

Situation #10 – Queen-Jack off suited vs 3 to an Inside Straight Flush [234, 235, 245, 346, 356, 457, 467]

Dealt Cards: 2 ♥ 4 ♥ 5 ♥ J ♦ Q ♣

9/6 DDB Hold: 2 ♥ 4 ♥ 5 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♦ Q ♣

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.000308 Credits
Number of Occurrences: 168

Situation #11 – King-Jack suited vs 3 to a Straight Flush 789

Dealt Cards: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 9 ♥ J ♦ K ♦

9/6 DDB Hold: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 9 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♦ K ♦

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.19334 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.0000179%
Number of Occurrences: 12

Situation #12 – Queen-Jack suited vs 3 to a Straight Flush No Gaps [345, 456, 567, 678, 789]

Dealt Cards: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 9 ♥ J ♦ Q ♦

9/6 DDB Hold: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ 9 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♦ Q ♦

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.0185 to 0.0580 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.0000179%
Number of Occurrences: 60

Situation #13 – King-Queen-Jack unsuited vs 3 to a Straight Flush 7-8-Jack

Dealt Cards: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ J ♥ Q ♦ K ♣

9/6 DDB Hold: 7 ♥ 8 ♥ J ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♥ Q ♦ K ♣

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.092507 Credits
Total Return Impact: 0.0000171%
Number of Occurrences: 24


Situation #14 – AKQJ Inside Straight with 3 to Inside Straight Flush (QJ8, KJ9, KQ9)

Dealt Cards: A ♦ 8 ♥ J ♥ Q ♥ K ♣

9/6 DDB Hold: 8 ♥ J ♥ Q ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♦ J ♥ Q ♥ K ♣

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.1203
Total Return Impact: 0.000033316%
Number of Occurrences: 36

Dealt Cards: A ♦ 9 ♥ J ♥ Q ♣ K ♥

9/6 DDB Hold: 9 ♥ J ♥ K ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: A ♦ J ♥ Q ♣ K ♥

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.1943
Total Return Impact: 0.000108%
Number of Occurrences: 72

[pokerpokerpoker]

Well done. Some of these are definitely worth knowing, some are certainly hair splitting. The KTX, the TQJ/JQK, and the AHHT are certainly worth knowing. All the close calls between 4 to a straight and 3SF I condense into going with the SF on 9/6 and leaning towards the straight on 9/5.


I my area, 9/5 is often the "better" game due to progressives. A 9/5 5-meter with a 1% meter lays back about the same as 9/6. If the meters have good meat on them, 9/5 wins. 9/5 play also seems to generate much better mailers than the 9/6 "full pay" game.

[BobDancer]

Situation #10 – Queen-Jack off suited vs 3 to an Inside Straight Flush [234, 235, 245, 346, 356, 457, 467]

Dealt Cards: 2 ♥ 4 ♥ 5 ♥ J ♦ Q ♣

9/6 DDB Hold: 2 ♥ 4 ♥ 5 ♥
9/5 DDB Hold: J ♦ Q ♣

EV Credit Difference per Hand: 0.000308 Credits
Number of Occurrences: 168Nicely done. I have a small bone to pick on #10. The difference of 0.00031 is correct if you're playing 9/5 using 9/6 strategy. If, however, you're playing 9/6 using 9/5 strategy, the difference is 0.1985 --- which is considerably larger. The "only 168" total occurrences prevents this from adding a lot in total EV, but a 20 cent error for a $1 five-coin player is too big to ignore --- in my opinion.That one caught my eye, because I knew the play wasn't close in 9/6 (yes, I play 9/6 DDB at the advanced level with the right promotion.) I didn't check out the numbers on the others. Yes I realize my comment is nitpicky --- Overall, I think it was outstanding work and I wish I had the computer chops to create such work myself. 9/6 is MUCH simpler than 9/5 at the advanced level. 9/6 at the 4,000 coin royal level is MUCH MUCH simpler than 9/5 at the 6,000 coin royal (where, approximately, the games have equal EV). The point that PPP made about better mailers if you play the 9/5 DDB progressive rather than regular 9/6 DDB is a strong one. Don't overlook such factors when you're comparing games.I also realize that I'm violating my self-imposed ban by posting here --- but Alpax's post was so good I felt the need to praise it.

[paco13]

We won't tell if you don't BD.

[case]

Alpax...you always amaze me with VP knowledge. You are a bonus to this forum!

[alpax]

Much appreciated for the comments and insights PPP and Mr. Dancer! edit: case as well!

I was intending on using the 9/5 strategy insights to fulfill a promise from the past, but the idea of looking into progressives and the hold differences at certain Royal Flush amounts is something worth looking into especially when mailers can get better. I will get to it over time. I did see people playing 9/5 DDB progressives at a low amount when 9/6 DDB was available at the Palms and Gold Coast in Vegas, there must be a reason behind it like PPP mentioned.

For Situation #9 with regards to King/Jack offsuit and Jack/Ten suited, I forgot to include that for 5 for 1 Flush games, it also takes into account if 8 or 9 is present on top of a Flush penalty card. I'll edit the original report.

The example that Mr. Dancer brought up was a very excellent point. I only looked at applying the strategy in one direction, but it is important to do both ways as the EV difference is indeed staggering. I'll need to update some parts to account for those differences.

To support Mr. Dancer's insight, I utilized Video Poker for Winners and analyzed that very hand on both pay schedules to indeed verify.



Like paco13 mentioned and some others in the past, I wish Mr. Dancer can participate on this forum, but I completely respect the reasoning behind the self-imposed ban. I am also thankful how billryan has stepped up all this time.

[alpax]

Alpax...you always amaze me with VP knowledge. You are a bonus to this forum!

Thanks case! I am sharing what I was able to study on DDB and to promote some of these games that the site is offering. Trying to bring back some of the interest levels that went down when Mr. Dancer had to self-impose ban.

I have some more to share, just takes the time to do it. Mr. Shackleford (or The Wizard) can do things much much quicker. I did study carnival Shufflemaster table games in the past, but it got nowhere. At least this got somewhere.

[pokerpokerpoker]

Here is a real life situation from the other day: I was looking to play at the .50 level. Options were the "full pay" 9/6 or the 5-meter 9/5 @$2800,$1060,$440,$430, and $260 with a 1%meter.

I know from the past that sticking to the FP machines gets you one step away from no-mailed. You might get $5FP twice a month, but only after earning 25 pts - even if you mix a fair amount of $1 play.

Since moving towards the other games, my FP the last couple months was in the $1000 range, along with free food, drawing tickets, gifts ect. Granted, after the horrible loosing streak I had a few months ago they might be just throwing me a bone. Time will tell. If I had to guess, mail is based on theo and the theo for the FP machines is set to nearly zero.

[alpax]

Most of the time I only see one meter for progressives and that is for the Royal Flush. The 5-meters makes it an outstanding play, and you are definitely right that it will not take much for the overall payout to surpass 9/6 DDB based on the values you've observed.

One factor that you might have been getting that type of mailer is based on the horrid result of being down 15 folds expected return. It does require some guesswork to see what type of mailers you get when you are on the winning variance swings which will eventually happen. If it is near $5 again (I remember you had a good run on the Recreational Forum), you can conclude that the score from the past visits is part of the equation. I would think the loss happened from TDB or TTB.

I would still take $1000 FP playing 9/5 DDB quarters for 20 hours, with $1 denomination play being equal to 4 hours of DDB quarter play.

[pokerpokerpoker]

Most likely past results DO factor into mailers. Last year I won 5 figures and mail was dismal. But, as long as they keep sending it I will gladly accept. Through fp and a good one a couple days ago, I have clawed back a good share of that bad run.

Going forward, any play above quarters will not be TDB. Giving up hundreds of credits in 3 of a kind pays an hour makes a bust out quick and likely. The higher payback lured me in, but I don't have the pockets for swings that big. I haven't played the TTB in some time.