The myth of playing 5 coins in video poker.

[ajs1956]

WV Radar, I'm sure your return is much higher than that. My return, playing 5 coins is very close to the bonus poker perfect play return of 99.17. When I include free play it's generally 99.4 or 99.5%. Gift cards alone put me over 100%. The gift cards have been for places like Amazon, Target, Walmart, Loews, and Home Depot, to name a few. I use them like real money. (The casino seems to have cut down on gift cards this year, only have $300 to Home Depot so far). This is based on annual returns. I did have one year several years ago where I had only 5 royals on 440,000 hands. That was a bad year. But that was the exception and not the rule, but still had close to a 99% return.

I don't include food or coffee comps because it's hard to calculate. But I can tell you that the past 7 or 8 years I've gotten all my coffee (for home - and I'm a daily drinker) at the casino and I (many times with a friend, spouse, or family members) have eaten at the casino 1 or 2 times per week and have never paid cash, other than tips.

Of course, I'm retired and can limit my play to times in which I get something back. In that sense, I guess I'm an "advantage" player. If I'm going to play a losing game, I want something back to offset the loss.

Point is, though, that 50% is a very poor return, but I'm sure you actually do much better than that.

[Vman96]

Point is, though, that 50% is a very poor return, but I'm sure you actually do much better than that.

I think he was saying even in his worst sessions he gets at least that back. Which is better than dinner and a movie, where you get no money back.

But I would counter with, you don't risk hundreds of dollars on a dinner and movie. Unless it's one hell of a dinner!

[ajs1956]

Yeah, I really missed his point on that.

I guess it's like me saying I brought $500 with me today (the amount I "gambled") and came home with $250. The way I look at it (and would do it), I brought $500, played all day and "gambled" $10,000 at the rate of $2.50 per hand (4000 hands). The $250 loss comes to a 97.5% return, not too bad since I didn't get a royal today.

I actually never call it "gambling" since I have a pretty good idea where I'll end up at the end of the year. No gambling involved.

[SaraTG]

.....I guess it's like me saying I brought $500 with me today (the amount I "gambled") and came home with $250. The way I look at it (and would do it), I brought $500, played all day and "gambled" $10,000 at the rate of $2.50 per hand (4000 hands). The $250 loss comes to a 97.5% return, not too bad since I didn't get a royal today.
.....  That's why those 97%, 98%, 99.1% "returns" don't mean anything. It's deceptive. Sure as you play along at $5 a hand or whatever you are hitting 2 pairs, 3 of a kinds, straights. flushes,etc and "winning" money so after 6 hours you've played a gazillion hands and "won" $11,000 but you've also "lost" $11,500 (Hands with a $5 bet and no win). Have you kept 99% of the money you walked in with? Not even close.  So an actual return of 50% of your starting stake is actually not to bad in the world of casino gambling.

[billryan]

[QUOTE=ajs1956].....I guess it's like me saying I brought $500 with me today (the amount I "gambled") and came home with $250. The way I look at it (and would do it), I brought $500, played all day and "gambled" $10,000 at the rate of $2.50 per hand (4000 hands). The $250 loss comes to a 97.5% return, not too bad since I didn't get a royal today.
.....  That's why those 97%, 98%, 99.1% "returns" don't mean anything. It's deceptive. Sure as you play along at $5 a hand or whatever you are hitting 2 pairs, 3 of a kinds, straights. flushes,etc and "winning" money so after 6 hours you've played a gazillion hands and "won" $11,000 but you've also "lost" $11,500 (Hands with a $5 bet and no win). Have you kept 99% of the money you walked in with? Not even close.  So an actual return of 50% of your starting stake is actually not to bad in the world of casino gambling. [/QUOTE]


   Math is hard for you, isn't it?
If one plays a gazillion hands, cycles through $21,500 as you state, and is down $500, what was his return?
What is the payback of the machine?
Suppose on his gazillionth and one hand, he hits a Royal Flush. Has that changed the machines payback?

[ajs1956]

[Quote]That's why those 97%, 98%, 99.1% "returns" don't mean anything. It's deceptive.[/Quote]

I guess everything is relative to our personal circumstances. But I think it makes a big difference, especially if you play a lot.

In the long term, let's say 1 year, you play $1,000,000 (easy to do). a 97% return realizes a $30,000 loss, a 98% return a $20,000 loss, and a 99% return a $10,000 loss. I'd prefer the $10,000 loss because I have a chance of offsetting it with freeplay and comps. Much harder with the bigger losses.

There's even a significant difference in daily returns. In 99.17 bonus poker the full house pays 40 credits. In the 98% version the full house pays 35 credits. You should average 1 full house for every 90 hands played. I play about 4,000 hands per session. That's about 44 full houses. I play 2.50 bonus poker, so the difference in the full houses during the session amounts to $110 every time I play (at least once per week). It adds up, but might not be significant to some.

[WVRadar]

[QUOTE=ajs1956]

Point is, though, that 50% is a very poor return, but I'm sure you actually do much better than that.

I think he was saying even in his worst sessions he gets at least that back. Which is better than dinner and a movie, where you get no money back.

But I would counter with, you don't risk hundreds of dollars on a dinner and movie. Unless it's one hell of a dinner! [/QUOTE]

Believe it or not my gambling budget is $100. This keeps me playing at least 3 hours or until my wife is done at the slots. I play quarters and flucuate between 1 and 5 coins but 1 and 2 are most common.

Yes my return is greater that 50%. I was merely using that as worst case. Although I get free drinks as long as I am playing that is it. I used to get a little free play on every visit but that is no longer the case...I expect that is to make up for the free drinks.

[BillWFord]

Markinca

Good point.

That is why I recommended (to novice player friends) playing one dollar on a 9/6 dollar machine rather than 5 quarters on a 9/5 quarter machine for practical reasons. You get 9/6 on the dollar machines. The best you can get, in this area, is 9/5 on quarter machines. They are roughly the same amount bet. On the quarter machine the loss per 100 hands is $1.95. On the dollar machine the loss per 100 hands is less at $1.82.

Obviously I agree with you that given X dollars bet you should go with the max coin odds.

[BillWFord]

Billryan

You are right. My 1.818 cents was playing $1.00 on a dollar machine in which you only get 250 times you bet on a Royal Flush.

I calculate playing a 9/6 machine with less than the max coins as 98.18%

[Vman96]

Billryan

You are right. My 1.818 cents was playing $1.00 on a dollar machine in which you only get 250 times you bet on a Royal Flush.

I calculate playing a 9/6 machine with less than the max coins as 98.18%


If you play 9/6 JoB optimally with one coin, it returns 98.37%.

There are a few strategy changes between max coin and 1-4 coin JoB.

Most notably, four to a flush always beats three to a Royal when not max betting. And this applies to all VP games when not max betting

Also, three to a flush Ace high beats two to a Royal Ace high. This is noteworthy to me because I have answered this question on this forum and others at least 5 times.
It begins when they question if a hand calculator was wrong. Every time they were incorrectly analyzing a 1 coin game 9/6 JoB game. Lol

There are a few more changes.

1-4 coin JoB strategy is listed here.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-po ... -50-d-250/