Why Banning Single Coin Players is Stupid

[WVRadar]

I am a recreational player, going to the casino about twice a month for the last 15 years or so. I usually play less than max coins while those around me almost always do.

My observation is this: In all the time I have played I have seen max coin players hit a jackpot only twice.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=WVRadar]I am a recreational player, going to the casino about twice a month
for the last 15 years or so. I usually play less than max coins while
those around me almost always do.[/quote]I believe I have more experience playing short coin than anyone on this
website.   After years of short coin play, I have learned a few things.   If you find these tips helpful, good.  If not, feel free to ignore them.  It's your money.Ask any VP gambler how they are doing and they will tell you about their last royal or quad deuce, not the money they lost in between.   When you play overall negative VP games, you are losing money on every hand.   It is a mathematical fact that reducing the amount of your bet reduces your loss on these games.  Unless you can gain comps or some other incentive that turns the game positive, running less money through the machine means losing less.  Playing one coin instead of 5 accomplishes this.That said, you are giving up 1-2% for the loss of the royal flush bonus.  There is a monetary and psychological cost to hitting a short coin royal.   It has also been my observation that casinos penalize short coin players.  They do this by reducing or eliminating free play and comp points.   If you factor everything into your decision, you may find playing short coin isn't saving you as much money as you believe.  Playing short coin allows you to play video poker longer with the same money.   This gives you more chances at a jackpot, but the jackpots are smaller and there is no guarantee they will happen any more or less frequently.1. If you are going to play short coin, always play one coin.  Never 2,3 or 4 coins.2. Do not jump between single coin and max coins trying to predict a jackpot.  You will occasionally guess right, but you will lose more money long term by doing this.3. Never switch to single coin when you are running out of money.4. Compare the odds at different denominations. Play the game with the best odds at the denomination you are most comfortable with. 5. If you hit a short coin royal, be happy that you won something and don't second guess your decision.You should be aware that short coin hand strategy is different than max coin strategy.  If you use max coin strategy when playing single coin, you will give up even more of your return.  I play single coin when I am forced to play severely negative VP games for an extended period of time.   Cruise ship casinos or any game where the max coin odds are less than 97% are a good place for this.  If you play these games with max coins you will lose more money long term than a royal will recoup.

[billryan]

Casinos do not penalize single coin players.
Math does.
A single coin player plays 20 percent of the coins an intelligent player does, so obviously they aren't going to get comparable comps based on time on the machine. It takes five times as much time for the single coin player to equal coin in, which is what casinos mostly base comps on.

[onemoretry]

My observation is this: In all the time I have played I have seen max coin players hit a jackpot only twice. I have seen hundreds of jackpots. Just between my wife and myself, we are somewhere between two and three hundred royals lifetime. I've had around fifteen royals so far this year.

Don't kid yourself! They do happen.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=BillRyan]Casinos do not penalize single coin players.
Math does.
A single coin player plays 20 percent of the coins an intelligent
player does, so obviously they aren't going to get comparable comps
based on time on the machine. It takes five times as much time for the
single coin player to equal coin in, which is what casinos mostly base
comps on.[/quote]Whatever the reason, the result is the same.  If I was ever going to play single coin, I would pull my card.  Playing single coin is one sure way to kill your free play and mailers.   The only thing you gain by playing short coin is more playing time for your money.  There are many negatives.  If someone doesn't care about comps or return and all they want is more hands for their buck, it's an option.  Most intelligent people would argue there is nothing "intelligent" about gambling in the first place.

[onemoretry]

Most intelligent people would argue there is nothing "intelligent" about gambling in the first place.
As you have said many, many times, it's entertainment. Is playing video poker for entertainment any less intelligent than paying hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to watch two guys punch each other in the head?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]As you have said many, many times, it's entertainment. Is playing video
poker for entertainment any less intelligent than paying hundreds, if
not thousands, of dollars to watch two guys punch each other in the
head?[/quote]Entertainment is where you find it.  If someone wants to play single coin so they can play negative VP games all day on a budget, does that make them less intelligent than someone betting 5 times as much on the same game?  The vast majority of VP games we have today are negative.  At lower denominations they are seriously negative.  In many cases, betting 5 times as much is a bigger hourly loser even with the royal bonus.  The royal flush bonus is there to get you to play max coins.  The casino gives you comps and free play for playing max coins.  Does anyone think they do this because it benefits the player? I didn't bring this issue up, another poster did.  This player is making some errors that are costing him money.  Does calling him unintelligent help?  I think not.   The biggest error he is making is not playing short coin, it's thinking he can beat the negative odds by switching to max coins at the right time.   I tried this for years and I can tell you with certainty it doesn't work.This issue will continue to be brought up as long as players can see playing negative VP games with positive game strategy doesn't make them profitable.  As long as there is a house edge, players can never beat the casino long term.   Reducing your cost to play is the next best thing.   There are many ways you can do this.  Putting less money through the machine by playing single coin is one of them.

[FAA]

Comps are a sore subject for me. On quarters, a grueling $50 per 1 TC grind. On dollars, $20 per TC. But five times the risk at full pay! Rock, meet hard place. Please advise!

[FloridaPhil]

I realize some forum members wish this issue would go away.  It won't as long as average players are lead to believe they can beat VP.  The odds of this happening are very slim indeed.  Of all the video players in the world, only a few make a successful living at the game.  What is needed is a realistic strategy for the average VP game for the average VP player, not a pie in the sky scenario.  Let's talk about how to make playing VP more enjoyable without telling people how unintelligent they are for wanting to keep more of their money.   How many coins you play is not as important as what it costs you to play them.

[billryan]

   FP says
"The casino gives you comps and free play for playing max coins.  Does anyone think they do this because it benefits the player?"

   More bull**** from the forum bull****ter.
How many times do we have to tell you that casinos give comps on coin in. Play max coins and your comps will be five times better than single coin, plus your game will pay back better.
Bet four coins and while you will rack up four times as many comps, you still suffer with a bad pay table.
It is not some casino conspiracy to sucker you into playing max coins. You know that, we know you know that, but you keep spreading the same nonsense anyway.