Why Banning Single Coin Players is Stupid

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=BillRyan]How many times do we have to tell you that casinos give comps on coin in.[/quote]Why do they give you more comps for more coin in?  Because the more coins you run through the machines, the more money they make. There is no conspiracy here, it's just good for business.We can pretend that all video poker players have access to Vegas style VP games and comps.  We can pretend all video poker players have the ability and desire to play computer perfect.  We can even pretend all players have unlimited bankrolls.  All of these things are essential if you are going to have any chance at winning long term.  None of these things is even close to being true for the average recreational player.Comps are the 800 pound Gorilla in this room.  Personally, I enjoy single coin play more than max coin VP play because it allows me to play longer for less money.   I try to limit my daily bankroll to $300 a day.   If I play max coin quarters, I can be gone in 2 hours.  By playing single coin I can play all day long and have at least half my money left.  However, I also enjoy getting a free room whenever I want.  For this reason alone, I choose to play max coins.  It costs me more, but my monthly free mini vacations are worth it to me and my wife.   If comps weren't an issue, I would play single coin quarters and have more money left at the end of the day.

[WVRadar]

Florida Phil I beg to differ with your first rule for playing short coin:

1. If you are going to play short coin, always play one coin. Never 2,3 or 4 coins.

The machine I usually play increases the payout for a Royal Flush proportianally, that is 500 for 2 coins, 1000 for 3 coins, etc. I will have to check but I think they make up for this by paying only 2500 for max bet.

As I have stated in the Strategy Forum, increasing my bet increases my chances of getting to the level I try to obtain to cash out (double my original coin in).

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=WVRadar]Florida Phil I beg to differ with your first rule for playing short coin:
1. If you are going to play short coin, always play one coin. Never 2,3 or 4 coins.The machine I usually play increases the payout for a Royal Flush
proportianally, that is 500 for 2 coins, 1000 for 3 coins, etc. I will
have to check but I think they make up for this by paying only 2500 for
max bet.
As I have stated in the Strategy Forum, increasing my bet increases
my chances of getting to the level I try to obtain to cash out (double
my original coin in).[/quote]I do not pretend to be a VP expert on this forum or anywhere else.  However, you asked about single coin play and that is something I am very familiar with.Some rare video poker machines add in a proportional royal bonus all the way down to one coin.  I believe they pay 800 coins for a single coin royal.  One of our members, Olds442jetaway in NY, has access to this game and does well on it.   Normally, you don't get the royal bonus unless you play 5 coins or more.   By playing 2,3 or 4 coins you are investing more money without the reward.   The whole idea of short coin play is to limit your coin in when playing negative games.  There is no mathematical reason to increase your bet if there is no reward. All those 2,3 and 4 coin bets you are making that do not pay are a waste.  Check your pay schedule to verify what you have.I can appreciate your statement of wanting to double your money so you can cash out.  After you cash out, then what?   You are obviously looking at your casino play in the short term.  I find myself doing this often.  If you really want to maximize your VP play, you should think in the long term.  In VP slow methodical accurate play wins out.  What happens in the short term affects you mentally, but can cause you to make decisions that cost you in the long run.  Personally, I don't enjoy slow methodical anything.  This makes me a less than optimal video poker player.  I know the cost for my actions and am willing to pay the price.  I find gambling exciting and entertaining, but frankly not that profitable.  

[FAA]

Two through four are a waste if you are unlucky enough to Royal. I'm unlucky, just not to that extent. If not, a straight up proportionate return. No harm, no foul. And at 40,391 to 1, I am not holding my breath. It's a bit foolhardy, but not exactly catastrophic.

[FloridaPhil]

Either play 1 coin or 5.  Why waste your ammunition on a shot that can't hit anything?I find the long term vs. short term view of VP interesting.  When I go to the casino all I want from VP is a nice entertaining day away from the cares of the world.   To enjoy it, I don't need to come home with empty pockets either.   If I come home richer than when I left it's a good thing, but it's not the driving force in my day.   I spent my entire life working my fingers to the bone to have a nice retirement.  Why would I want a new job playing VP?   If that's what some folks want... fine, just don't try to recruit me.  I'm done working that hard.

[Vman96]

I am a recreational player, going to the casino about twice a month for the last 15 years or so. I usually play less than max coins while those around me almost always do.

My observation is this: In all the time I have played I have seen max coin players hit a jackpot only twice.

Most players must be playing games with $1000 max pays around you then and you don't move much. I walk around a good amount from various machines. I usually see a handpay or two at my local in the VP section on most trips. I also go about twice a month. Keep in mind most of these people getting the hand pays are wagering $10-$50 a round and aren't guaranteed to be up on the day with those handpays.

[FloridaPhil]

I go to the casino at least one day a week.   I also like to walk around a lot.  The casino I play at is one of the largest casinos in the US by square footage. It is very common to see one or more VP royal flushes in a day.  Slot hand pays are even more common.If you only play quarter VP, you will not see many hand pays.  Big Jackpots happen all day long in a busy casino.  So do big losses.   What matters to me is not how many jackpots I hit.  What matters to me is how much money I go home with.  This is the short term view of VP.   There is nothing unintelligent, undisciplined or uninformed about my view of VP.   VP is a game that gives you choices.   I am fully aware of the math and the consequences of my actions and that is my choice. I know this frustrates some people on this forum.  They should understand that not everyone wants to play VP like a computer.   To me, sitting in a casino for days on end grinding it out at the same denomination is boring.  Doing it for a living seems like the worst job I could imagine.  If that is what it takes to beat the casino, few people will make that choice.  

[WVRadar]

[QUOTE=WVRadar] I am a recreational player, going to the casino about twice a month for the last 15 years or so. I usually play less than max coins while those around me almost always do.

My observation is this: In all the time I have played I have seen max coin players hit a jackpot only twice.

Most players must be playing games with $1000 max pays around you then and you don't move much. I walk around a good amount from various machines. I usually see a handpay or two at my local in the VP section on most trips. I also go about twice a month. Keep in mind most of these people getting the hand pays are wagering $10-$50 a round and aren't guaranteed to be up on the day with those handpays.[/QUOTE]

You are correct in assuming that I don't move much: the other machines in the casino have 8/5 or 7/5 Jacks or Better paytables. The machines are multi denomination (.25, .50. 1.00) and most people are wagering $20 or more per game. Since most players are betting max coins I assume they are playing quarters. However I've seen one player beside me feed $500 in the machine, play $1 max coins and lose all of it in about 20 minutes. I think he was playing a high risk/high reward game though.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=WVRadar]However I've seen one player beside me feed $500 in the machine, play $1
max coins and lose all of it in about 20 minutes. I think he was
playing a high risk/high reward game though.[/quote]Sounds like your pay schedules are close to what we have in the Southeast.  Our most popular VP game by far is 8/5 DDB.  This is a 96.786% game at max coins.  At 800 hands an hour, a max coin dollar player averages a loss of over $128 an hour on this game.  This assumes all jackpots show up on time and you are playing computer perfectly.  The variance on this game is very high making $500 an hour losses a real possibility.  I can't image a comp they could give me that would be worth playing this game.This is a perfect example of what I have been talking about.  If you play this game computer perfect for an extended period of time you will never win long term unless you hit a string of royals and never go back in a casino.  If you like playing this game, play it for a quarter a hand.  You will still lose, but at least you won't need a loan to get home.  If I'm itching to play this game, I put in one $20 bill and walk with whatever happens.

[FAA]

Either play 1 coin or 5.  Why waste your ammunition on a shot that can't hit anything?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nice nutshell articulation of the philosophy. Keep your powder dry. Either be a singles or home run hitter. The shot can still hit premium hands, so "anything" is hyperbole. But I get the idea. Doubles and triples are not important, since most hands are after all losers and 2/3/4 are simply more likely to accelerate a bust than provide added funds. Those dollars are better served contributing to RF opportunities.