Casino Payout regulations

[asteroid]

Yes. And actually it would have been even worse morally than the current bad situation if they were traditional (pre-determined outcome) VLTs because the auto-hold would deceive the player into thinking they weren't pre-determined (i.e. class III) and that the holds actually made a difference. But this is moot since they behave like class III gaming devices as you wrote. In Oregon's case this is incorrect. VLTs behave there exactly like VP in Vegas. They offer terrible paytables to make up for it, as well as a $600 max payout. They suggested holds that were incorrect though hence the lawsuit.

[MT1716]

This thread is the old "flip the switch" idea. At some point, somewhere in the casino, someone "flips the switch" to make the machines (slots, VP) pay out more (or less). It simply does not happen. Slots can have their payouts tightened, but not without shutting them down and making the necessary payout adjustments. VP payouts depend upon the advertised schedule on the machine and the skill of the player(s). The pay schedule is the only thing the casino can change and that would be obvious.

[rsactuary]

Slots can have their payouts tightened, but not without shutting them down and making the necessary payout adjustments. In Nevada this action has to be recorded and reported to the NV Gaming commission, I believe.

[ko king]

Well done asteroid, ignore the petulant criticism of snarkted, he is pissed because you showed concrete evidence of corruption and cheating in gaming that is supposed to be highly regulated. So what if it involves lotteries, in most states both casinos and lotteries are at least partially interrelated and involve similar or the same oversight.

As I stated many times previously, I simply show evidence and belief that these games and activities in general are subject to the same possible instances of corruption and cheating as anything.... I believe the majority of gaming is as advertised, but by majority I mean 80-85%, not 99%+.

I quit playing and haven't even visited this site in a while but I think I'll chime in on the subject. I've taken on another business venture that has put me right smack dab in the middle of all the casinos I spent thousands of hours playing in for over 20 years. I used to drive hours to get to these casinos, now that I'm within walking distance I don't play anymore. What I do get the benefit of is speaking with 100's of people every week that have been coming from out of town to gamble ever since gaming was made legal in this location. All I've learned is I'm not alone in my belief that video poker isn't what it used to be here, pay tables haven't changed but the game sure got a lot tougher and more expensive to play. I do get some satisfaction is hearing the same thing over and over again about how bad it's gotten, let's me know it wasn't just a never ending run of bad luck for me or I had turned stupid and forgotten how to play the game. If I ever decide to play again it will be on a very different level. I've considered now that I'm so close maybe taking a $20 bill into my casino of choice and playing $1 VP at max and just leaving when it's gone. No more plugging $100 bills into those hungry hippos anymore for me.
      On the subject of lotteries which I'm pretty certain are supposed to be regulated in pretty much the same fashion as casino gaming seems like there was 2 states that got exposed for holding back larger paying scratch tickets.

[DougJ]

I quit playing and haven't even visited this site in a while but I think I'll chime in on the subject. . . All I've learned is I'm not alone in my belief that video poker isn't what it used to be here, pay tables haven't changed but the game sure got a lot tougher and more expensive to play. I do get some satisfaction is hearing the same thing over and over again about how bad it's gotten, let's me know it wasn't just a never ending run of bad luck for me or I had turned stupid and forgotten how to play the game. . . .



No, you haven't "turned stupid" or "forgotten how to play the game."

You haven' missed anything by staying away from this forum because the same two bullies continue to troll this site . . . one now a self proclaimed Native, the other who lives in an apartment because they are an AP player in Henderson, and can't afford a house.

Meanwhile, here is interesting reading, it is mostly about slot machines, but mentions VP, and still applies to all those who fancy themselves as Experts:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ll/505814/

Furthermore, anyone who understands string manipulation will understand WHY the VP isn't what it used to be.

You can't sell books and software if anyone starts to learn about how string manipulation works with RNG.

Thanks for posting ko king, as well as to other posters like DaBurglar and FloridaPhil. It's okay!!!

[DaBurglar]

This thread is the old "flip the switch" idea. At some point, somewhere in the casino, someone "flips the switch" to make the machines (slots, VP) pay out more (or less). It simply does not happen. Slots can have their payouts tightened, but not without shutting them down and making the necessary payout adjustments. VP payouts depend upon the advertised schedule on the machine and the skill of the player(s). The pay schedule is the only thing the casino can change and that would be obvious.Wrong....casinos which now operate on Servers can indeed literally in very little time update, change or modify a few, some or ALL of their inventory of games!   If you've ever worked with server-based systems or know how they function then no further explanation is needed.....this was the primary reason some casinos have switched to servers, it saves on labor and technical support costs on a massive scale.As for VP payouts only being impacted by the paytable, while this is HOW it is supposed to work and how regulations in virtually ALL casino markets stipulate, for those of us playing in AC for the last decade but most prominently the past 3-1/2 years, we know there is something else being done to severely reduce the return% on VP games down into the lower ranges of Slot payouts (88% for example) or worse......how you ask?   Simply put, many of the games (especially the multi-line gimmick type games) just deal tons and tons of crap/non-paying/dud hands for extended periods of times.....Royals are extremely rare and hard to get in AC, far more rare than they statistically should be.

[billryan]

Shouldn't you be in the losers lounge with the others?
Misery loves company.
A few years ago, chaos theory was all the rage with losers. Now I guess it's string theory.
Losers come and go, but the song remains the same.
I'm curious, Doug. Since you live in the Valley, did you manage to get in on the bonus jackpot promo that just expired? Wondering if we crossed paths?

[DaBurglar]

  No, you haven't "turned stupid" or "forgotten how to play the game."

You haven' missed anything by staying away from this forum because the same two bullies continue to troll this site . . . one now a self proclaimed Native, the other who lives in an apartment because they are an AP player in Henderson, and can't afford a house.

Meanwhile, here is interesting reading, it is mostly about slot machines, but mentions VP, and still applies to all those who fancy themselves as Experts:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ll/505814/

Furthermore, anyone who understands string manipulation will understand WHY the VP isn't what it used to be.

You can't sell books and software if anyone starts to learn about how string manipulation works with RNG.

Thanks for posting ko king, as well as to other posters like DaBurglar and FloridaPhil. It's okay!!!

Post of the Year as far as I am concerned.....well put DougJ!Tedlark I obviously got right away, but it took me a few minutes to figure out it was Billyryan who is the Henderson, Nevada apartment dwelling-in-lieu-of-a-domicile-due-to-his-status-as-an-"Advantage Player".   I forget he lives in Vegas now....but that's good for him in terms of video poker because as much as I view AC video poker as questionable, I do have very high trust for the integrity of Nevada casinos....but even there I know things have been tougher than days gone by.....I do not play enough in Vegas any more to have a working theory on that yet.

[billryan]

Half the houses in Vegas are underwater. I wonder what DougJ owes on his house?
In any event, the $150K I'd need to pull out to pay for a similar condo earns me more than enough to cover my rent.
I wouldn't expect the math challenged to understand that.

[Tedlark]

It would now appear that DougJ will be co-authoring DaBurglar's complaint to the New Jersey Gaming Commission? Um, "self-proclaimed Native?" I have never had anything negative to say against you DougJ but I'll accept the bodyshot you threw at me as nothing more than a mosquito bite. And I was having such a good day.....