Casino Payout regulations

[Tedlark]

Whatever.....

Edited to add: DaBurglar again, if you think video poker games are: rigged, skewed, manipulated to have a negative effect on the player, crooked, or otherwise jigged by the casino, don't play them.

[rsactuary]

Ask yourself, how can video poker games with tables that advertise returns of 98-99%  be expected to (or reconcile with) an OVERALL ANNUAL payout that is only 90-91%????Let's say video poker gambling is 10% of the total amount gambled.  So if slots returned 90% and video poker returned 98.5% (choosing the midpoint of your range), then total average return is:   90%*.9 + 10% * .985 = 90.9%QED

[asteroid]

Absolutely Daburglar:1. https://www.courthousenews.com/player-c ... y-rigged/2. https:www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article128935259.html3.https://www.yahoo.com/news/programmer-pleads-guilty-theft-lottery-rigging-scandal-210924505.html4.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/15/douglas-poppa-riviera-casino-rigged-slot-machine-lawsuit_n_2480626.htmlEven if it is "against the rules", that doesn't mean they cannot, or will not do it.   Its supreme naivete to think otherwise......

[Tedlark]

Two of the 4 examples that asteroid presented were for cases involving state lotteries and not casinos. One of these cases involved a code programmer who WAS CAUGHT and the second (the newest of the 4 examples) lottery case involves a class action suit filed regarding the auto hold feature for VLT's (VLT = Video Lottery Terminal) in the Oregon State Lottery system. Seems a player filed suit claiming that the auto hold feature is misleading players into thinking the auto held hand will provide the best favorable outcome and has cost players 132 million in lost winnings. Anyone who knows anything about how VLT's work will know that the outcome of the hand is pre-determined and if the hand is scheduled to hit a $10.00 payout for that hand it will payout no matter what may be held or not held on the dealt hand. If a player gets dealt a winning hand for $10.00 and decides to toss that hand and draw a new hand; they will receive another hand paying $10.00 on the draw.

#4 of asteriod's examples is in regard to a fired employee of a casino who has filed a wrongful termination suit regarding a whistle blower complaint. This case was filed in 2011 in Nevada but there is nothing showing how this matter was resolved.

The #2 example I did not open because I got a virus warning from my McAfee software when I tried to open it so I didn't.

Updated to add: in example #4, the wrongful termination suit against the Riviera, the case was settled out of court in 2013. I did not find any action brought against the Riviera by the Nevada Gaming Commission about the original claim made by Mr. Poppa.

[DaBurglar]

Well done asteroid, ignore the petulant criticism of snarkted, he is pissed because you showed concrete evidence of corruption and cheating in gaming that is supposed to be highly regulated. So what if it involves lotteries, in most states both casinos and lotteries are at least partially interrelated and involve similar or the same oversight.

As I stated many times previously, I simply show evidence and belief that these games and activities in general are subject to the same possible instances of corruption and cheating as anything.... I believe the majority of gaming is as advertised, but by majority I mean 80-85%, not 99%+.

[asteroid]

Hi Ted, please try this link (I tested this link and it works):http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 59.html.In this case, Interblock craps machines were set by the casino (Isle Casino and Racing) to withhold 5% of a winning bet along with 5% of the original wager  rather than just  5% of the original bet (and not 5% of the win from the winning wager) as they are supposed to. I'm guessing then that this was a lay or buy bet on one of the points as these are supposed to subtract 5% of the wager if the bet wins just as in live craps at many casinos.I believe 2 other employees filed suit against the Riviera casino in addition to Poppa (https://www.courthousenews.com/third-wo ... ged-slots/). I wonder what kind of hush money Mr. Poppa received to drop the case ?It should be noted that if casinos disappear gaming commissions will disappear or much less staff will be required at the gaming commission as there would be less gaming to oversee.I vividly recall my own experience with casino cheating. With about 40 dollars in credits on an IGT game king (playing deuces wild)  at the now defunct Sienna Club in Reno, I hit the ducks for $250 (quarter denomination). This resulted in a hand pay (why for such a small amount I don't know). The slot manager came by with a slot tech and cleared my ~ $40 credits then payed me $250. I said, hold on, what about the credits I had on the machine ? She (the slot manager) said that I was only eligible to receive the $250. Only by threatening to go above her to the shift manager, did she also pay me my non-ducks machine credits. While this is not an electronic example, it does show that casinos can and do cheat. Two of the 4 examples that asteroid presented were for cases involving state lotteries and not casinos. One of these cases involved a code programmer who WAS CAUGHT and the second (the newest of the 4 examples) lottery case involves a class action suit filed regarding the auto hold feature for VLT's (VLT = Video Lottery Terminal) in the Oregon State Lottery system. Seems a player filed suit claiming that the auto hold feature is misleading players into thinking the auto held hand will provide the best favorable outcome and has cost players 132 million in lost winnings. Anyone who knows anything about how VLT's work will know that the outcome of the hand is pre-determined and if the hand is scheduled to hit a $10.00 payout for that hand it will payout no matter what may be held or not held on the dealt hand. If a player gets dealt a winning hand for $10.00 and decides to toss that hand and draw a new hand; they will receive another hand paying $10.00 on the draw.

#4 of asteriod's examples is in regard to a fired employee of a casino who has filed a wrongful termination suit regarding a whistle blower complaint. This case was filed in 2011 in Nevada but there is nothing showing how this matter was resolved.

The #2 example I did not open because I got a virus warning from my McAfee software when I tried to open it so I didn't.

Updated to add: in example #4, the wrongful termination suit against the Riviera, the case was settled out of court in 2013. I did not find any action brought against the Riviera by the Nevada Gaming Commission about the original claim made by Mr. Poppa.

[Tedlark]

Asteroid I briefly looked at the follow up suits filed after Poppa filed his. One of the suits was filed by a casino employee hired by Poppa and this newly hired employee was fired not long after Poppa was fired. The other fired employee claimed he was fired simply because he was hired by Poppa.

[FAA]

Thanks for the chart. It merits its own thread in the AC section. Hope you consider my suggestion.

[Vman96]

   Two of the 4 examples that asteroid presented were for cases involving state lotteries and not casinos. One of these cases involved a code programmer who WAS CAUGHT and the second (the newest of the 4 examples) lottery case involves a class action suit filed regarding the auto hold feature for VLT's (VLT = Video Lottery Terminal) in the Oregon State Lottery system. Seems a player filed suit claiming that the auto hold feature is misleading players into thinking the auto held hand will provide the best favorable outcome and has cost players 132 million in lost winnings. Anyone who knows anything about how VLT's work will know that the outcome of the hand is pre-determined and if the hand is scheduled to hit a $10.00 payout for that hand it will payout no matter what may be held or not held on the dealt hand. If a player gets dealt a winning hand for $10.00 and decides to toss that hand and draw a new hand; they will receive another hand paying $10.00 on the draw.



In Oregon's case this is incorrect. VLTs behave there exactly like VP in Vegas. They offer terrible paytables to make up for it, as well as a $600 max payout. They suggested holds that were incorrect though hence the lawsuit.

The bars in Illinois have VP like Vegas too, but also have that annoying $500 cap.

[Tedlark]

I was out in Portland this past May and I stayed away from any VLT I came across, I just don't like them.

In Illinois, I believe the cap was put in place to appease politicians when the bill was still being worked through the House and Senate. I have played bar machines in Illinois exactly once, earlier this year while waiting for a carry out order at a local restaurant. I seeded the machine with $60.00 and after losing about $18.00 I hit for $500.00, cashed out and walked away. The two players who I was sandwiched between grumbled as I hit it. Maybe they had been playing a while.