Another VP Odds Downgrade

[FloridaPhil]

Bill, if you want to help members of this forum, instead of making
stupid comments why don't you tell us what you would do if you played VP
at this casino?No answer again.  Did you learn that in Dancer's class?This is the reason I have been negative about Bob Dancer for so long.  It has nothing to do with his strategy.   He'll read this post knowing there is a real issue here and he won't comment.  He keeps preaching to players that they can make a profit playing VP when the numbers for most of us don't add up.  If  he sincerely wants to help players he should address the concerns of the majority of players, not just a few inside Clark County or someone with a time machine playing back in the year 2000.   How about some help for the rest of us?  Don't play these games is not an answer.  We know these games aren't profitable.  How about telling us how to make playing negative VP games cost less?  Now that's a book I would buy.

[FAA]

Phil is simply attempting to adapt to drastically changed circumstances. Unfortunately, no amount of lipstick can gussy up these sow machines.

[FloridaPhil]

All I am trying to do is make this forum more relevant to what your average players sees when they go to the casino.   Only discussing advantage VP play is like talking about Y2K, it's old news.  How long are we going to kid ourselves into thinking positive VP opportunities are still there for the taking?  Sure, there may be a few places like South Point in Vegas where a guy like Bill Ryan can get a free dinner or some hole in the wall casino that only Bob Dancer knows about.  No one is disputing that.  The average VP game where I play is 97% or less.   Even the few games left with anything close to 99% are being pulled.  The only way to get above 99% is to bet a wheel barrel full of money and let the shear size of your bets eat up your bankroll.If we are going to have a forum that teaches anything usable, we need to face reality.  Otherwise we are living in a fantasy world and playing right into the casino's marketing plan.  If you live in Vegas or Reno, you still may have a shot.  Most everyone else is paying to play and you're most assuredly paying too much.

[BobDancer]

You keep begging me to comment. I will tell you how to deal with this, but I guarantee you won't listen. You'll make several posts on why you can't do what I am suggest. I've told you this before and you refuse to do what I say and keep asking me to suggest what you should do.I don't particularly enjoy being repetitious. That's your specialty. Listen this time and I won't need to tell you again.If the best game is so bad, DON'T PLAY. PERIOD. Cross that casino off your list of places to play. There are several of those casinos in every casino city in the world --- including Las Vegas.Don't worry about the AVERAGE VP GAME. Find the BEST VP GAME. if it returns enough, play it. If it doesn't, don't.If finding playable games (meaning those where you have an advantage) requires you to move up in stakes, either put up or shut up! If it is more money than you're comfortable with, simply don't play. If it's more money than you have, earn or save enough to do this. Playing these machines WILL generate more money if you can survive the swings.For people without a gambling problem, it's easy not to play. You can play all you want on this site and others if you just want to pay the game. For people who insist on gambling anyway where the games are so bad, (and driving for hours for the privilege of doing so), are clearly people who don't make very good choices in life.

[olds442jetaway]

Sounds to me Phil like a trip up north here may be in order before the snow arrives. Mohegan Sun still has plenty of quarter 9/6 job games and quarter airport deuces games. Foxwoods has them too but at the dollar level. They dumped their good quarter games years ago. I have been playing mostly that lone dollar spin poker machine at Mohegan that pays 800 for 1 for the Royal. The other night I was playing 3 lines at a buck a line on the Bonus Deuces Wild game. I was down about 400 and decided to play the 3 lines at 2 bucks a line for a few minutes. Luckily I was dealt quad deuces which I held and on the draw, I pulled the Ace on the bottom line. That was good for a 1600 hand pay. Anyway, the good games are still here for the moment at both casinos. Wish I could say I am ahead for the year, but sadly no. The Royals continue to be way too far apart for my liking. Tomorrow when I go up, I will check the paytables on Bonus Poker. I know they pulled the 99.1 quarter games some years ago. I will post back on what they are now.
     Finally, as to BR, I really wish he would post some info to help others who are serious about playing vp whether for fun or profit. That would be a big help to the forum. Knowledge still is power and that will never change.

[FloridaPhil]

Bob's right of course.  What do you think would happen if all the players in the country stopped going to the casino unless they could play good games?  Be honest about this and think for yourself.   Casinos would all look just like shopping malls... empty.What does VP advantage play strategy mean to the average small time player?  It means unless you can play positive VP games perfectly, all the VP profit books and writings are meaningless.  It turns most VP players into suckers paying AP bills while the casinos rake in huge profits from players who think they can do the same.  Does anyone here actually believe they want us to stop playing these games?What we need are new VP strategies that let a player enjoy a day at the casino without emptying our checking accounts.  Let's define what a good, decent and bad VP games is.  Let's look at the math and reveal the real cost to play these games so players can use facts to determine if and how they are going to play them.  Let's stop dreaming about jackpots and expose the actual cost of hitting them.   Am I the only one who cares about this?  Is everyone on this forum happy with the cost of playing VP in 2017?   There are two ways to go, don't play or know the real cost to play these games and make your decision how to play them based on facts not dreams.  I enjoy my time at the casino, but I don't enjoy being told I need to lose more so I make a bigger profit. 

[billryan]

What would happen if all the players in the country stopped playing bad games?
Free market economic theory would say people would flock to the casinos with the good games and ignore the casinos with bad games.
There will always be a few degenerates who have to play any game no matter how bad, but the best way to attract quality customers is to educate them.
Is it a coincidence that the casino in Vegas with the best VP is also the place with the best VP educational programs, as well as one of the better player clubs?

[FloridaPhil]

Excellent point.  Factor in two round trip tickets from Orlando to Vegas and see how that works out.   I am not an expert on Vegas VP opportunities, we have more than one of those.  I am discussing playing VP most everywhere else.