Another VP Odds Downgrade

[FloridaPhil]

Just got back from 3 days at the Hollywood Hard Rock Casino.  This casino had 6 standup single line VP machines with quarter 98.9% deuces wild.  We have been playing these games for a number of years and they were the main reason we preferred this casino.   Upon arriving, we noticed all the VP machines had been relocated.  Walking the entire casino told a sad story.   All the quarter deuces games in the casino had been downgraded to 96.193% game, except for two lonely machines that still had the 98.9% quarter game.   Players were camping on those two machines making it hard to get a seat.  Except for those two machines, the 98.9% DW game now starts at the dollar level.  The quarter Bonus Poker is now 6/5.  We have found this to be the case in most of the South.  The Hollywood facility was an exception.  If you are going to play the DW games, it makes for an interesting situation.  You can play max coin quarters at 96.193% or single coin dollars at 97.686%.   What would you do?

[OTABILL]

Sad, but unfortunately the general trend.

[FAA]

Misery loves company. Welcome to the bewilderment I absorbed about a year ago when Harrah's seemingly overnight switched their quarter JOB bank to dollars! We know BD's answer. But for us scuffling in the other forty nine states, it's a dilemma. Single coin dollars given your discipline. I'd do excessive max betting and bust on a weekly basis, of course. You can always briefly max on the way out.

[Vman96]

I would like to see what a deuces paytable of 96.193% looks like myself.

I guess this?

Royal Flush 4000
4 Deuces 1000
Wild Royal Flush 125
5 of a Kind 80
Straight Flush 60
Four of a Kind 20
Full House 15
Flush 10
Straight 10
Three of a Kind 5

I would bet a significant amount of money that the straight flush paid 65 instead and the machine's payback was 96.77%. It's the most common VP payback for quarters across the country, imo.

Either way, still sucks a lot. Sorry for the downgrade.

If I had to play either game, I probably one coin the dollar game.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=vman96]I would bet a significant amount of money that the straight flush paid 65 instead and the machine's payback was 96.77%[/quote]I checked our photos and you are correct.  Max coin quarters pays 96.77% and single coin dollars pays 97.686%.BD wouldn't play either of these games.   In Bob's world all the VP games are positive, comps are generous and players play 100% accurately.  In my world the house edge is  3-4% without errors.  I also suppose a 70 year old BD never makes an error, I do.If you are going to play these games, what are your options?   You could cut your play down to 2 hours a day.  You could play so cheap your losses are a joke.  You could, as Ted has pointed out, take a bathroom break every 5 hands.Another way to look at it would be to play VP as if it were a trip to Disney World or a cruise, only they give you a chance to win your money back.  With VP odds approaching slot machine levels, we are finding more entertainment from the new graphics and sound rather than staring at 5 cards all day.  It's only a matter of time before VP heads out the door for good.By playing single coin dollars, math says you gain back almost one percent by giving up the royal bonus.   In addition, you are risking $1 a hand instead of $1.25 reducing your theoretical hourly loss by 1/5th.  I personally prefer this option because I can double down to max coins without exiting the game if I find myself ahead.  I'm sure the math says this is a mistake, but a common wild royal pays $125, 5-of-a-kinds pay $75 and a max coin dollar quad deuce pays the same as a max coin quarter royal and it's nine times more likely.  To me the excitement level alone is worth the cost.These are real world VP problems we all face.  I wish someone would write a book called "Video Poker for the Disadvantage Player".  

[Waiting4RF]

Phil, Bob does not play all positive games. If you remember the April 2016 article you commented on, he was playing NSUD which has a 99.7% return.

[FloridaPhil]

My understanding is he never plays any VP game unless he has an advantage.  That advantage could include a combination of ER, comps or something else he wants like a cruise or a car.   I'm not sure there are enough comps in the world that could get him to play a 96.765% game.  Certainly not at the Florida Hard Rocks.As a side note,  they also dropped the dollar triple play Jacks or Better from 9/6 to 9/5.  I guess my friend that was down $25K won't get a chance to catch back up unless he wants $25K worth of T Shirts. 

[billryan]

Time goes by, and fools still howl at the moon, desperate that someone notice them.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]Time goes by, and fools still howl at the moon, desperate that someone notice them.[/quote]Can you please explain for us how this comment contributes anything positive to this forum?   I suppose this is what you say when you don't have any answers.VP odds reductions are a real issue that our forum members are attempting to deal with.   You are so fond of math, but you choose to ignore it when you don't like the answers.  This example clearly shows playing single coin dollars at this casino is 1% better than max coin quarters.  The house edge on a 96.765% deuces wild game is 3.235%.  Playing 800 max coin quarter hands an hour at 96.765% means you lose a theoretical $32.35 an hour on this game with perfect play.The house edge on 98.9% deuce wild game played at single coin is 2.32%.  Playing 800 single coin dollar hands and hour at 97.686% means you lose a theoretical $18.51 an hour on this game with perfect play.ORIf you play a 96.765% max coin quarter game one cycle (45,000 DW hands divided by 800 hands an hour equals 56.25 hours), you lose $1,819.69 or nearly two max coin quarter royals.If you play a 97.686% single coin dollar game one cycle (45,000 DW hands divided by 800 hands an hour equals 56.25 hours), you lose $1,041.19 or about one max coin quarter royal.If my numbers are correct, these are truly eye opening losses.  All are welcome to check my numbers.  If I'm wrong, please let me know.   Bill, if you want to help members of this forum, instead of making stupid comments why don't you tell us what you would do if you played VP at this casino?

[billryan]

Wow, phil is singing the praises on his single coin strategy again. Feels like only last week he was done with it forever