CS Basics

[FloridaPhil]

Some of you are taking CS way to seriously.  You ridicule a VP playing method based on luck that's entire purpose is to allow a player to play negative VP longer and cheaper with his/her money and turn it into something concocted by a "heretic".   Should I be burned at the stake or crucified? Get serious.  CS returns more "fun" per dollar for the average player on a budget.  You assume "fun" is more money.  It's not.  Playing Negative Video Poker costs money long term.   I know it, you know it and everyone who is honest with themselves knows it.  You may win for years at a time.  If you play them long enough the negative odds will eventually take their toll.   If this causes problems, stay out of casinos....When you are paying to play, you decide what you want the game to be.  If you want the best chance at the greatest long term financial return, clean out your 401K, use math and play only the best games the best mathematical way.   This has already been proven to work if you have the guts to take those risks.   If you want to play VP all day for $100, CS is one possible option.  If you play CS and hit a max coin royal, the VP Gods are not going to "smite you"!  Take the money.    It may never happen again or it might happen on the very next hand.  CS is about playing cheap and being in position to benefit from good luck.    What happens after that is not math, it's gambling.  

[Tedlark]

Phil I have nothing against what you're offering with CS but to me, a much better alternative would be to play max coin in at lower denominations.

You've discussed in the past that people shouldn't play with money they cannot afford to loose and that's a mantra EVERYONE who: steps foot into a casino; or buys a lottery ticket; or a raffle ticket from a Boy Scout or Girl Scout; plays bingo at the local place of worship; or, matches quarters, should follow.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Tedlark]You've discussed in the past that people shouldn't play with money they
cannot afford to loose and that's a mantra EVERYONE who: steps foot into
a casino; or buys a lottery ticket; or a raffle ticket from a Boy Scout
or Girl Scout; plays bingo at the local place of worship; or, matches
quarters, should follow.
[/quote]Absolutely.  That's the one thing that bothers me about math based VP strategy.   Playing positive VP games computer perfect in no way guarantees you win be a long term winner.   I fear some players will miss this fact and be financially hurt by their misinterpretation of the facts.We are not responsible for the misfortunes of others unless we do or say something to lead them into their problems.   I go out of my way to tell players on this forum that gambling is a long term loser.  When I was playing CS, losing $200 a day was about the extent of my losses.   I now play max coins at 25 and 50 cents with some $1 play thrown in.  Losing $500 a day or more happens.  I am currently making money.  I can also afford the loss.  What could happen if someone reads about my royal on Tuesday and concludes he/she could turn their weekly pay check into a windfall?  I think about those things.CS held my losses down when I wanted it to.  Playing max coins at a lower denomination may have been a better choice.  Would I have done it?  No, because the chance of hitting a good jackpot was my incentive to play VP.  A $200 royal wouldn't have kept me in the game.  I would have drifted off into the high limit room and lost even more money.  CS is a way to gain control over those feelings.  Think of CS as crutches for a gambler.  I threw away the crutches by mentally adjusting the amount I am willing to put at risk so I can play max coins.   Will I win or lose more?   Only time will tell.

[Jstark]

...I go out of my way to tell players on this forum that gambling is a long term loser...

100% false!

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=jstark]100% false!
[/quote]I guess you are new here.  I have been posting on this forum for over 8 years where I have talked extensively about my losses.  The only time I ever claimed to be a long term winner playing VP was over the two years that I played using CS.  So you know, my winnings weren't enough to pay my lawn maintenance.  Nevertheless, it beat losing.If your long term goal is to make money playing video poker, you are on the wrong forum.  You should be on the Strategy Forum where players live "nice lifestyles" playing VP and their biggest problem is filing their W2G forms.   Good luck...

[FloridaPhil]

The real question members should be asking me is "Why are you on this
website when you seem to be so negative about VP?"  Video poker
is ideal recreation for a retiree.  We can't go sky diving, hike the
Application Trail or race down a drag strip.  We can sit in an air
conditioned room and push buttons.   We love playing VP.  It's our
major recreational activity.  Some of the greatest resorts in America
are casinos and most of them are free if you are willing to play their
games.Players
of all ages lose for a wide variety of reasons.  Some
play poor games out
of ignorance, some chose to intentionally or they are the only games they have
available.  Some play inaccurately, make bad decisions or are just plain unlucky.  Hardly ever
does a player lose because he is unintelligent.  After all, how much
intelligence does it take to memorize hand
plays?  One popular VP book is entitled "Video Poker for the Intelligent

Beginner".   What does that mean?  Do you need a PHD to win playing VP? 
Would Albert Einstein have been the greatest VP player the world had
ever seen?  This book's title is designed to sell itself.  Who is going to put it down because they believe they are too stupid to win playing a game with five buttons?I believe all video poker strategy books, software and websites should require a disclaimer that reads something like this.Video
Poker is a game of chance.   Video poker mathematical calculations
offer a wide range of possible results.  Your decision to play VP should not
be based on your expectation to profit from the game.  The author's
performance may not be indicative of your results.  Play at your
own risk.If the sellers of these products did this,
authors would be free to justify playing
video poker as entertainment.  If an individual player made money
playing VP, all the better.    These books, software and websites do not
talk about the "chance" you might lose from no fault of your own.  They
don't come out and say so directly, but the
inference is "play positive games perfectly and you will win."   Will you?As
long as you
don't gauge your success in VP by how much money you make, you can can
enjoy the game for what it is....a game.  You will be free to enjoy
the entertainment of playing VP instead of beating yourself up because you aren't
"intelligent" enough to win.  The only thing unintelligent about playing
VP is expecting to beat a Billion dollar industry at their own game.  Unless the
casino is on your side, your odds of success are slim indeed.

[FAA]

I was lucky enough to hit min and max dollar quads today with my CS with a twist. Betting flat dollars I would currently be busted and boisterous. But I had a +$150 day on $700 coin in. Great system!

[New2vp]

Some of you are taking CS way to seriously. 
So, I need to be less serious.  CheckLiterally, same post, next paragraph's first sentence: Get serious.   So, I need to be more serious.  Check If you want the best chance at the greatest long term financial return,
clean out your 401K, use math and play only the best games the best
mathematical way.  So, math works if the player has an edge.  Check If you want to play VP all day for $100, CS is one possible option.  If
you play CS and hit a max coin royal, the VP Gods are not going to
"smite you"!  Take the money.    It may never happen again or it might
happen on the very next hand.  CS is about playing cheap and being in
position to benefit from good luck.    What happens after that is not
math, it's gambling. So, math doesn't work if the house has an edge.  CheckCS was never about winning more money playing VP than you would using
any other strategy.  It's about extending play.  It lets you play
cheaper 90% of the time while putting you in position to get lucky 10%
of the time.   This has value to someone who is playing video poker for
entertainment purposes. Ok, where can I find these 90% and 10% numbers?  I think this is really going to be tough without math.  Oh, I get it.  You continue to mix apples with oranges.  When you say cheaper, you do not mean the total outcome, the amount won minus the amount lost.  For 90% cheaper, you are only counting the coin in on single coin, not the wins that you would have had from max coin.  And for the 10% lucky, you are only counting the amount won at max coin, not amount lost from playing at less than max coin.  I get it now.  So, when you are making comparisons, it is wrong to count all the coin in and all the coin out.  Check.Anyone who uses CS is not motivated by math.Check.  Maybe that's makes it so tough for the unenlightened  to see that math has no role in analyzing CS. If your long term goal is to make money playing video poker, you are on
the wrong forum.  You should be on the Strategy Forum where players live
"nice lifestyles" playing VP and their biggest problem is filing their
W2G forms.
Ok, so if you're talking about CS here because it is fun, it is ok to post in the Recreational Play area.  But if you're talking about it as a strategy, say, to decrease losses, it has no place here.  CheckWow, it sure is hard to keep all these straight without a scorecard or without breaking them down one by one.  It seems even harder when you try and understand more than one of these points simultaneously.  There is no reason to
discuss CS any further.Ok, so there will be no more discussion.  Check.  Scarecrow, I think I'll miss this one most of all.  That is, until the reruns start!

[New2vp]

I was lucky enough to hit min and max dollar quads today with my CS with a twist. Betting flat dollars I would currently be busted and boisterous. But I had a +$150 day on $700 coin in. Great system!Congratulations on your luck today!

[New2vp]

  That is, until the reruns start!

Wait, they started a while ago ... and never stopped.  Again, and again, and again.  Well, after all, it is Groundhog Day ... again!