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[b74]

I think that everyone that makes these slanderous comments about IGT/Action Gaming video poker machines be banned from this site!
Even if they pay for their membership?
Against freedom of speech?
Afraid of new ideas?
Always believe what your told?
Just fall in line, you can follow as well as the rest I’m sure

Why would IGT care if a player is concerned about their percentage return of a specified pay table when they feel that maybe the machine itself was altered in some way? Nobody said it’s IGTs fault. They build and sell equipment that maybe is exploited. Hmm?

[b74]

I've asked that same question countless times and got no answer in return. I've even suggested that players who feel that there is something wrong get a new hobby or game. As another forum member posted once before: until you poll EVERY video poker player in the world, your small sampling of people who've said video poker is rigged means nothing.

Asking 20 people if video poker is rigged and 3 people say they think it is, is not a large enough poll.
Actually I found the only 100% payback (guaranteed) betting system known to mankind.

[billryan]

[QUOTE=Jstark] Losing players always blame something else besides their own ignorance.

Who ever said that they lost?
If I was given a mathematical percentage return of 100.17% and only obtained a return of 100.5%, over my lifetime career of vp then I have not obtained the promised return. [/QUOTE]


   I think I see what the problem is.

[New2vp]

b74 asserts he is a VERY experienced player (like many of us), which therefore means he does in fact have the ability to intuitively "know" many things



I don't think I need to respond here.  I think highlighting this use of logic coupled with the last post speaks for itself.

[DaBurglar]

  Maybe your skin is thinner than you let on?  Why do you have so much invested in b74's short statement?Based on what's above, I see that you prefer the crassness of others' posts to mine.  I understand that even though I myself instead prefer more civility, geniality, and politeness.  To each his own, I guess.Sorry, I won't be around for your scintillating response.  There's some work to attend to today.  My answer would probably disappoint you anyway.I'm not going to try and separate all your other posts which are mixed within other quotes within quotes....Thin Skin?  so much Invested?    That one goes right back in your lap....."Scintillating" indeed.I never said you were preventing anyone from doing anything, I asserted you were "pouncing" on b74 because you in fact WERE....your peppering with the usual questions that come up whenever a typical player vents about poor results is obvious in its effect (if not its intent, blame the guy for his own poor results and thus make him feel worse.   Now, if you were sincerely trying to SNAP him (or anyone else) out of it and get them to look at the situation more objectively, then fine, but you need to make it more obvious that such is your intent.....I kinda doubt that's what you were doing but I'll toss it out there......He (b74) may indeed be partly to blame, it may be just rotten luck or he just might be onto something....YOU are no more able to say to absolute certainty which is which than I AM.  In essence, whenever any of us lose we all are "to blame", no one is forcing us to play.   b74s personal opinion that some of his losing MIGHT be due to VP becoming even more difficult due to other factors players can't or don't know about is a common thought....As for your needless insinuation and griping about me editing my posts, all I can say is I'm sorry it bothered you so much that I saw fit to go back and edit and add to my previous thoughts....I suppose that is one of the many reasons they have an EDIT feature in the first place.   Maybe waiting a few more minutes before immediately posting to another's post you feel strongly about would solve that issue.....And for the record, my own personal case (or argument) on this topic of the integrity of VP (expressed throughout this forum in numerous posts) is a lot more subtle, and multifaceted than you addressed.....

[onemoretry]

If I was given a mathematical percentage return of 100.17% and only obtained a return of 100.5%, over my lifetime career of vp then I have not obtained the promised return. Hmmm, let me see now, which is more - 100.5% or 100.17%? By golly, I think it might be 100.5%!

[billryan]

[QUOTE=b74]
If I was given a mathematical percentage return of 100.17% and only obtained a return of 100.5%, over my lifetime career of vp then I have not obtained the promised return. Hmmm, let me see now, which is more - 100.5% or 100.17%? By golly, I think it might be 100.5%![/QUOTE]

But one number has five digits.

[New2vp]

I'm not going to try and separate all your other posts which are mixed within other quotes within quotes....I can understand that.  Based on this post, you don't have many defensible points to make.  Here, I've retained all your words as they appeared when I started this post and separated your paragraphs so that others can appreciate your thoughts in the order that you made them.
Thin Skin?  so much Invested?    That one goes right back in your lap....."Scintillating" indeed.Really, truly.  This is a little disappointing if not expected.  No critical analysis, no apparent rhetorical skill, not even a failed attempt at wit.  No logic to tie things all together.  You must have been a debating terror on the playground, alternating between, "I know you are, but what am I?" and "Boys are rubber, girls are glue..."
I
never said you were preventing anyone from doing anything, I asserted
you were "pouncing" on b74 because you in fact WERE....your peppering
with the usual questions that come up whenever a typical player vents
about poor results is obvious in its effect (if not its intent, blame
the guy for his own poor results and thus make him feel worse.   Now, if
you were sincerely trying to SNAP him (or anyone else) out of it and
get them to look at the situation more objectively, then fine, but you
need to make it more obvious that such is your intent.....I kinda doubt
that's what you were doing but I'll toss it out there......Well, if I was ever going to seek advice on forum etiquette, I hope your feelings are not too hurt, but you would not be in the top 10 of those whom I would ask.  You may want to dust off whatever reading comprehension skills you claimed to have at one time.  My post started off with an apology for the experiences that b74 had.  And I asked him questions about his post.  Certainly, one could see that he had experienced results poorer than he expected and was giving up comps that he had earned, but I imagined that there was more to the story and I still think that.My questions were about how he came to the conclusions that he did, not about whether he was a bad guy for playing video poker.It's hard to clearly understand what you meant with "(if not its intent, blame
the guy for his own poor results and thus make him feel worse." since I cannot see where your parenthetical phrase ends or even what that tortured sentence structure is trying to convey.  Taking a chance on its interpretation, it appears you think that my questions indicate I'm blaming him and trying to make him feel bad.  I certainly did not blame him for vp losses, whether or not the machines were rigged.  If they weren't rigged, he might have had bad luck.  If they were, well, he might still have had bad luck.  But you have to have fairly messed-up vision or an agenda of your own to see blame for his video poker play in the questions that I wrote.  We don't know how much he lost based on the percentages that he posted, but I'm presuming it was at least in the thousands of dollars.  I would imagine that, given those losses, my few words would be of little to no concern to him in his assessment of his well-being.  Conversely, I would be surprised if your words would do much to comfort his bank account against that magnitude of monetary loss.  I encourage you to go ahead and continue trying if you think that will help him.I admit it is nice to see you being concerned for other posters' feelings.  It shows personal growth.I have taken some care to try and remove all questions, even self-answering rhetorical ones, out of the respect for what you think is the power that my interrogatory sentences have.  Hopefully, you will feel better about yourself as a result.
He
(b74) may indeed be partly to blame, it may be just rotten luck or he
just might be onto something....YOU are no more able to say to absolute
certainty which is which than I AM.  In essence, whenever any of us lose
we all are "to blame", no one is forcing us to play.   b74s personal
opinion that some of his losing MIGHT be due to VP becoming even more
difficult due to other factors players can't or don't know about is a
common thought....That is the 2nd paragraph in which you brought up blame.  Your words:  "He may indeed be partly to blame."  If you are so concerned with b74's feelings, you probably shouldn't have said that.  Perhaps you were projecting your own feelings while reading my words.  Maybe there is some other explanation.I did like your 2nd sentence in which you indicate that you are uncertain as to whether or not machines are rigged.  Again this is an improvement over the relative certainty that you have expressed in the past, particularly in certain locales.  But I have seen your position here soften over the years, so I acknowledge that this is not entirely new on your part.
As for your needless insinuation and
griping about me editing my posts, all I can say is I'm sorry it
bothered you so much that I saw fit to go back and edit and add to my
previous thoughts....I suppose that is one of the many reasons they have
an EDIT feature in the first place.   Maybe waiting a few more minutes
before immediately posting to another's post you feel strongly about
would solve that issue.....I wasn't griping about your editing.  I actually believe that a lot of your posts could be improved by more editing, some more than others.  And I appreciate but decline your advice on the timing of when I make my posts.  You seem to have a lot of suggestions for how others post.  Perhaps you could think more about that and in the process improve your own methodology.I spoke of the editing to explain why I made an additional post.  You made errors in describing my views, intents, and even what I said.  I'll leave it as an exercise for you to determine what your mistakes were.  Nevertheless, it actually would help you keep things straight if you quoted the exact words from other posts ... unless you do that with the intent of mischaracterizing other's statements.  If so, that is at least a better intermediate debating technique than you used early in the post.  I should warn you that it falls short when others can see what was actually said.
And for the record, my own personal
case (or argument) on this topic of the integrity of VP (expressed
throughout this forum in numerous posts) is a lot more subtle, and
multifaceted than you addressed.....I'm not certain what record you are now trying to correct, but I agree that you should try and bolster the credibility of your own past comments rather than to needlessly defend posts by others, the details and veracity of which you have no idea.  Your confirmation bias continues to show.  You come to a conclusion and then search for analysis (and accounts from others) that agrees with that conclusion.  Of course, this method does not always produce the wrong result, but it's still faulty logic.Best of luck on continued growth and improvement!

[Jstark]

[QUOTE=Jstark] I think that everyone that makes these slanderous comments about IGT/Action Gaming video poker machines be banned from this site!
Even if they pay for their membership?
Against freedom of speech?
Afraid of new ideas?
Always believe what your told?
Just fall in line, you can follow as well as the rest I’m sure

Why would IGT care if a player is concerned about their percentage return of a specified pay table when they feel that maybe the machine itself was altered in some way? Nobody said it’s IGTs fault. They build and sell equipment that maybe is exploited. Hmm?

[/QUOTE]
Yes, paid memberships can be revoked.

Freedom of speech does NOT apply on private property.

It's not an idea, it's bogus nonsense.

Not afraid of anything in gambling. These conspiracy folks do not understand variance, standard deviation, etc.

IGT should care about the garbage being spread about machines being rigged.

[b74]

[QUOTE=b74] [QUOTE=Jstark] I think that everyone that makes these slanderous comments about IGT/Action Gaming video poker machines be banned from this site!
Even if they pay for their membership?
Against freedom of speech?
Afraid of new ideas?
Always believe what your told?
Just fall in line, you can follow as well as the rest I’m sure

Why would IGT care if a player is concerned about their percentage return of a specified pay table when they feel that maybe the machine itself was altered in some way? Nobody said it’s IGTs fault. They build and sell equipment that maybe is exploited. Hmm?

[/QUOTE] nobody but YOU brought IGT into this to begin with. That’s like saying a Chevrolet killed a man earlier this morning , no actually a human operating the Chevrolet killed a man. Maybe go back and read. Maybe slow down while reading too if that helps
Yes, paid memberships can be revoked.

Freedom of speech does NOT apply on private property.

It's not an idea, it's bogus nonsense.

Not afraid of anything in gambling. These conspiracy folks do not understand variance, standard deviation, etc.

IGT should care about the garbage being spread about machines being rigged.
[/QUOTE]