Which Game is Better?

[FloridaPhil]

Here's a question for you math guys.  This is not a trick question.  I am not trying to trap anyone or make a point.  I really would like to know.The next time I go to my local casino I will have to make a decision.   The best quarter Deuces Wild game is 97.579% with max coins ($1.25).   If I move up to dollar play, the game is 98.9%.  Both games are obviously negative.   If I play single coin dollars, the 98.9% game drops to 97.686% because I lose the royal flush bonus.   If I don't hit a royal, the game still pays 98.9%.    Mathematically, it seems like the single coin dollar game is the better choice.I could solve this problem by playing max coin dollars, but because the game is 1.1% negative and I will be running 4 times as much money through the machines my long term overall loss could possibly be worse than if I played max coin quarters.  I also am not comfortable with the bankroll swings of max coin dollar play.Which game is the better choice for me,  max coin quarters or single coin dollars?  Assuming I don't mind hitting a $250 royal, is it worth playing single coin dollars at this casino?

[Jstark]

Your best decision is to stay home!

[Gronbog]

As a recreational player who expects to pay a price for the entertainment, choose the game with the lowest expected loss per hour.  Don't guess. The calculations are easy to do.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Jstark]Your best decision is to stay home![/quote]That is the answer that is given when someone doesn't have an answer.  This is a very common situation in today's casinos that needs to be addressed on this forum.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=gronbog]As a recreational player who expects to play a price for the
entertainment, choose the game with the lowest expected loss per hour. 
Don't guess. The calculations are easy to do.[/quote]I think the math shows playing single coin dollars is the better choice.  On every wild royal, the single coin dollar player is going to get 5 extra dollars.  On every five-of-a-kind, the single coin dollar player is going to get and extra 3 dollars.  These are common hands that add up.  The max coin quarter player has to wait 45,000 hands to make up the difference.   In addition, the single coin dollar player is running less money through the machines.  Because both games are negative, this reduces the loss over time.  However, the jackpots are smaller.Math doesn't take into consideration the pain of hitting a short coin royal.  As a Recreational Player playing negative games, you pick your pain and you take your chances.  I would like to hear from anyone who thinks my choice is not the best.  I am totally neutral on this subject.

[billryan]

Of two evils, choose neither.
Casinos offer bad games because they know that a certain proportion of the base are sheep and will happily play bad games.
The beauty of VP was that an educated player could realistically beat the game. Had casinos introduced the game with horrible odds, few would have played them.
Now, some sheeple create bizarre strategy designed to help addicts lose less money or spread their high out a bit longer.

[FloridaPhil]

Here's something else to think about.  To prepare for an upcoming road trip, I have been comparing VP games for the last few weeks on my VPW software.   The variance of Deuces Wild is supposed to be half way between Jacks or Better and Double Double Bonus.   An inexperienced player may conclude you can play Jacks or Better longer with the same money than you would playing Deuces Wild.  In reality, I do not find this to be the case.  Quads are very rare hands.  They have a bad habit of not appearing for long periods of time.  It is common to go through $100 or more an hour playing Jacks if quad hands are on hiatus.   In Deuces Wild, the small pay outs are less, but they are more common.  Play $20 on both games at the same denomination and you will see what I am talking about.  This tells me "variance" is different than "average cost to play per hour".   Many Recreational players judge a game by how long they can play it with the money they have.   You can really take a bath on quad based games if you don't get quads.  I guess this makes sense?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]Now, some sheeple create bizarre strategy designed to help addicts lose less money or spread their high out a bit longer.[/quote]Well I guess you didn't learn your lesson yesterday.   In your first post, you called us sheep and said we are addicts.   Nice...You just don't get it.  Recreational players are not playing VP for the same reasons you are.   We are primarily motivated by the amount of entertainment we receive, not the amount of profit.   If I never made a dime playing VP, it would be fine with me as long as I was able to play the game at a reasonable cost.  When you go into a fine restaurant do you talk the owner into playing Three Card Monte for your bill?  Come to think about it, that might work in Vegas.  News flash!  Not everyone does everything for a profit all the time.  Today is Valentine's Day.  Did you calculate the odds your girl friend would be nice to you if you bought her a present?  With your attitude, I doubt any woman would put up with you for long.   You are well on your way to becoming an outstanding AP.  Stop insulting us.  If you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation,  get your dog groomed with your comps or go back to South Point and stick your head back in the machines.

[FAA]

The quads are back from hiatus in my case. I've been catching three a trip somehow, on brief play. When JOB goes dry, BP or DW have stopped the bleeding. I've had enough JOB beatings not to overstay my welcome again.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]When JOB goes dry, BP or DW have stopped the bleeding. I've had enough JOB beatings not to overstay my welcome again.
[/quote]I've been switching between Bonus Poker and Deuces Wild myself lately.   Jacks and Bonus have one problem I have a hard time dealing with.  Quads only pay 125 coins.  Unless you are playing dollars or hit a string of them, it's not enough for me to walk out.  At least with Bonus you can get 400 coins for 4 Aces.  Playing quarters that's still only $100.In Deuces Wild the game seems to last longer with each $20 and the $250 quad deuce jackpot is substantial.  Both games have the royal if you want to wait that long.  Also, Deuces Wild is a more exciting game no matter what the bet.  I'm leaning back toward Deuces Wild for my road trip VP.If you really want a real blood bath, play DDB without a quad all day.