2017 VP Results - Not Great!

[FAA]

Unfortunately, I have concluded that Harrah's is unfair. So it's going on my list of casinos that I will not play, now 71% of AC.

[FloridaPhil]

If we were expecting to make a profit from VP, we would be concerned with the fairness of the games.  We do not.We play the best games we can find and use software to provide us with the best plays.  We play mostly max coin quarters.   This allows us to play VP at a reasonable cost free from worry.  Throw in some comped rooms, drinks, food and free play and we think playing VP the way we play it is a bargain.   We don't believe the games are rigged.  If the casino is shaving off a few royals or adding in some "dud" hands, we couldn't tell the difference anyway.There are many people who enjoy the casino experience year after year and never make a dime.  If we were to take a survey on this forum and ask anyone who claims to make a profit playing VP to produce their documentation, we would be waiting a very long time.  I suspect some do, but not that many.The question is this?  If you play VP for years at a time and don't make a profit, is it the fault of the games or is it you?  We don't care.   As long as we enjoy playing VP and we can do it at a reasonable cost compared to our other entertainment choices, we are fine with the way things are...rigged or not.

[billryan]

Are you seriously asking that if YOU choose to play a game that has negative long term results and you end up having negative results, is it somehow the machines fault?

[FloridaPhil]

I was responding to DaBurglar's post where he suggested the games are rigged via a computer network..  I said this was technically possible and I believed it could be done so the Regulators couldn't tell by testing a single CPU.   I also said I don't believe this is the case.I'm not picking sides in this debate.  The only way to "prove" his assertion would be to produce documentation showing long term results played by the exact same player playing the exact same game with the exact same odds played in the year 2000 vs. the present.  That will never happen.Over the past 17 years VP odds have been downgraded and comps reduced.  New games have been introduced, many with much higher variance.  Contrary to what we want to think, we are all getting older and our accuracy and stamina are not as keen as they once were.  I don't believe the games are rigged, they don't need to be.   I challenge anyone on this forum to prove to the rest of us he/she can play VP totally error free for a full day.  It's not as easy as it sounds.  If members actually can, the list will be short and it won't be full of senior citizens.This brings us full circle back to my question.  If you are losing more than you should playing VP, are the games rigged or is the fault of the operator?    If they are rigged, my wife and I are happy with them just the way they are.  A few thousand dollars a year to play quarter VP is not going to change our lifestyle.  If you don't like what it costs you to play VP don't blame the machines, do something about it.

[FAA]

The new normal is that the playable casino is a pit and the cost center is highly playable. I'm tweaking as fast as I can.

[onemoretry]

If you are losing more than you should playing VP, are the games rigged or is the fault of the operator?   
Or, perhaps, neither of the above? Variance, perhaps?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]Or, perhaps, neither of the above? Variance, perhaps?[/quote]For sure.  Back in the day we didn't have UltimateX, Super Times Pay, Multi Streak, Who Knows What  Pay Poker and all the rest.  These games have much higher variance than plain old single line Jacks or Better.   They also have to be more profitable for the casinos.  When you make an error on a 100 play video poker machine, your error is multiplied 100 times.  Is it any wonder players are losing more money now than when they were sitting around playing low variance games one hand at a time?Think about this.   Suppose South Point pulled out all their negative video poker machines and replaced them with full pay video poker machines.  Do you think the casino would survive?  I think they would still make money.   There is no need for any casino to invest money into rigging video poker machines with or without a network.   Humans are not computers.  Humans have dreams.  Humans make errors.  Humans get tired.  Some Humans drink too much.  Humans feel pain when they lose.  Humans do things in an attempt to make the pain go away.  In other words, Humans are human.    The greatest AP would be a Computer Cyborg with no feelings and an unlimited budget.  I have a feeling he wouldn't be playing VP.Have fun while we are gone.   We are Biloxi bound.

[FAA]

You're both too sensible to lose anything more than a trivial sum. What a bonanza.