Saw the internal "actual hold" screen at a casino

[trumpforprez16]

The internal screen data shows the expected hold and the hold based on actual play. I have seen holds much, much higher than 8%. The reason is that most players make errors. By the way, this is not some big casino secret --- many casino attendants will allow a player to see the internals, including the player's past hold history. I have done this on numerous occasions if I have a question about a particular hand. Sometimes they have to get the slot supervisor, but it is not some big huge hush hush secret. A machine programmed for 1% or 1.5% hold that has an actual of 8% is, in reality, doing much worse for the casino than many of their machines. The regs in all states tell the casino what the maximum programmed hold can be, but there are no regs that tell players how many errors they can make.

I'm surprised errors would have that big of an impact, but maybe they do.

[rascal]

LOL! Trump, I saw a hold percentage of 38% on one machine I was playing at Laughlin. Have seen others in the mid-teens. 8% is not that bad, really.

[Vman96]

LOL! Trump, I saw a hold percentage of 38% on one machine I was playing at Laughlin. Have seen others in the mid-teens. 8% is not that bad, really.

38% hold is illegal long term if you're talking about one definition. It's legal if you're talking about the other definition (and close to average for slot machines).

That's why I hate when people use the word "hold" without explaining what it means. Because I've seen it used interchangeably with regards to machines to mean two different things. Either "actual hold vs. "coin-in"", where 15% is very disturbing. Or "actual hold from "cash-in"" where 8 to 15% sounds normal. So which number is he talking about???

With tables "hold" means one thing:
Chips Won at Table / Chips purchased at table

That definition is NOT the same as house edge. And not even close to it.

People on other forums I post at constantly claim that Blackjack players play way worse than optimal because the "hold" is ~15% in the gaming report. But they don't understand what the hell "hold" means there! And I don't think Trump does either.

[trumpforprez16]

[QUOTE=rascal] LOL! Trump, I saw a hold percentage of 38% on one machine I was playing at Laughlin. Have seen others in the mid-teens. 8% is not that bad, really.

38% hold is illegal long term if you're talking about one definition. It's legal if you're talking about the other definition (and close to average for slot machines).

That's why I hate when people use the word "hold" without explaining what it means. Because I've seen it used interchangeably with regards to machines to mean two different things. Either "actual hold vs. "coin-in"", where 15% is very disturbing. Or "actual hold from "cash-in"" where 8 to 15% sounds normal. So which number is he talking about???

With tables "hold" means one thing:
Chips Won at Table / Chips purchased at table

That definition is NOT the same as house edge. And not even close to it.

People on other forums I post at constantly claim that Blackjack players play way worse than optimal because the "hold" is ~15% in the gaming report. But they don't understand what the hell "hold" means there! And I don't think Trump does either. [/QUOTE]

It's very simple what it means: it's what's left over after all coin-out.

So $800,000 goes into lifetime of the machine and $780,000 comes out, what is left over is the 'hold' or $20,000 in this case.

It has nothing to do with 'house edge' so I have no idea why you're getting confused.

What I saw was very clear: it's the total percentage the house has MADE in PROFIT on the damn machine, or individual games, for the machine's lifetime.

[billryan]

I don't believe the hold has anything to do with a machines lifetime. I think it is for a particular period of time.

[onemoretry]

It's very simple what it means: it's what's left over after all coin-out.

So $800,000 goes into lifetime of the machine and $780,000 comes out, what is left over is the 'hold' or $20,000 in this case.

It has nothing to do with 'house edge' so I have no idea why you're getting confused.
Well, I'm confused. What do you mean by "$800,000 goes into lifetime of the machine"?

Do you mean the total amount of money players have put into the machine, or do you mean the total amount of play - a totally different thing?

[Vman96]

[QUOTE=trumpforprez16]
It's very simple what it means: it's what's left over after all coin-out.

So $800,000 goes into lifetime of the machine and $780,000 comes out, what is left over is the 'hold' or $20,000 in this case.

It has nothing to do with 'house edge' so I have no idea why you're getting confused.
Well, I'm confused. What do you mean by "$800,000 goes into lifetime of the machine"?

Do you mean the total amount of money players have put into the machine, or do you mean the total amount of play - a totally different thing?[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!!! It makes a YUGE difference. That's what I've been trying to get him to clarify.

I guess this is another question.

Did the machine screen data ITSELF use the word "hold" for every line description, including the theoretical line that was near 2%?

[billryan]

Machines that hold 38%, others that give you back your original cards. Thank God I don't live in your worlds.