Saw the internal "actual hold" screen at a casino

[trumpforprez16]

An employee opened up the internal screens of the video poker machine I play, and accidentally showed the screen that shows HOUSE HOLD, actual and theoretical.

The theoretical hold was listed and showed around "2%" for most of the games, as expected.

Then it showed the ACTUAL HOLD, and I about THREW UP. For almost all the games, it ranged from 8 to 15%+ !!!!

The employee said, "Oh oops you're not supposed to see that, I could get fired."

Only ONE game had a positive payback for the player at 4%, presumably a game that had hit a few more Royals than normal. The rest were all negative and WAY out of the range of 2% hold.

The house hold is so insane you have a better chance playing slots!

This was Wildwood Casino in Colorado. All of these are state regulated, but something is off here. I do know the slots payback between 92-94%. I know the state law is at least 90 or 92, I can't remember which, but it's better than any Indian casino on the planet OR Vegas.

But that's slots.

I will say playing video poker in Colorado has been nothing short of a nightmare of misery.

I wonder if other casinos have the same hold? This is f***ing criminal. How the F*** does that happen?

There's no way player mistakes should account for that kind of divergence.

I will say I've played those machines for six months I began to WONDER if something was 'off' as I rarely hit Royals and LOSE thousands upon thousands.

Like I said, I wish I never touched that trash. Turns out the hold was way above what is expected.

My theory is IGT and the casinos figured out some way to 'extend' the 'life' of the machine and put off Royals 20 or 30 years 'down the line' while raking in a much higher hold in the near-term. This is criminal if true, but I believe it is true. It's why so many people say, "Wow video poker sure was better 20 years ago." Everyone universally says it sucks now.

(Of course, you'll have those rare moments a machine is 'hot' and I've had those moments. It's not enough to make up for 'cold' VP machines. And frankly, it's creepy when that happens, like why the F*** is the machine 'hot' all of a sudden when this is suppose to be operating under a RNG?)

All I know is VP is CANCER and I've quit playing it. F***ing waste of MY TIME, my life and money, total horses***T scam. And I've played millions upon millions of hands. I've seen enough now. I'm SO FAR BEHIND the amount of Royals I should have by now, based on the hands played, the Royal deficit is insane for me. Biggest scam in the casino.

I also notice other 'weird' things, like Double Super Times Pay seemed to use a different RNG for hands that come out, and how playing higher DENOMS seems to result in much more cold streaks than playing nickels. Or how playing TEN HANDED seems to result in 'less' winning hands, etc.

Too much weird s***.

And I've recently been DEALT 22224 and 4444A, on Triple Double, ten handed, $1, max bet. Not even huge wins like that are ENOUGH to overcome trillions of ****ty hands and so few Royals.

I mean, the bad streaks I've had are enough to send you to suicide.

So done with this cancer. Soul-sucking trash.

[Jstark]

"Hold" and "house edge" are not the same.

[trumpforprez16]

"Hold" and "house edge" are not the same.

No s***

Do you even know what I'm talking about here?

[Vman96]

"Hold" and "house edge" are not the same.

Hold is a terrible term. If hold follows the "table games definition", a 8% hold is wonderful. If it means "actual return" then that's bothersome unless it's some pain in the butt strategy gimmick game. The average player doesn't play badly enough to cost themselves 6 to 13% return.

[trumpforprez16]

[QUOTE=Jstark] "Hold" and "house edge" are not the same.

Hold is a terrible term. If hold follows the "table games definition", a 8% hold is wonderful. If it means "actual return" then that's bothersome unless it's some pain in the butt strategy gimmick game. The average player doesn't play badly enough to cost themselves 6 to 13% return. [/QUOTE]

No, it isn't, which is why it is so problematic to see house hold at such a HIGH percentage, so far out of the range of expected variance, and ALL in the favor of the house except one game (I think it was Deuces Wild, 5 cent or something).

It listed dozens of games, this is a Super Star 2 game, I think, with many of the games like Frenzy, Ultimate X, etc.

Of course, house hold can wildly vary on VP, but isn't it CURIOUS that -- from what I saw -- it overwhelmingly favored the house by wide margins on every game except one?

How CUTE.

[Eduardo]

If there was a positive return game with a 98% payback then they must have all been reset not too long ago, or some hue multiplier win. Any idea the date range? 8-15 seems low if that is accurate but I'm not sure what is actually expected there and it probably depends on the game. People definitely bring the expected value down a few points with poor play. But it's not surprising that the games would all be in favor of the house. That's why these games exist after all.


Sorry for your obviously terrible luck.

Sounds like stepping away is a good idea for you based on all your posts recently.

[DaBurglar]

Seven years now....been saying it and saying it, but like your typical average Trump supporter, no one wants to even pause for a moment and think you it....something is just not right with today's VP.

[Eduardo]

Seven years now....been saying it and saying it, but like your typical average Trump supporter, no one wants to even pause for a moment and think you it....something is just not right with today's VP.In the next 7 years I'm sure you'll find at least another 3 or 4 people who agree with you too, so you can keep believing that. Your evidence of this grand conspiracy?By
your trump supporter comment were you talking about the poster above?
Because that seemed like a cheap shot at the one person agreeing with
you recently.

[rascal]

The internal screen data shows the expected hold and the hold based on actual play. I have seen holds much, much higher than 8%. The reason is that most players make errors. By the way, this is not some big casino secret --- many casino attendants will allow a player to see the internals, including the player's past hold history. I have done this on numerous occasions if I have a question about a particular hand. Sometimes they have to get the slot supervisor, but it is not some big huge hush hush secret. A machine programmed for 1% or 1.5% hold that has an actual of 8% is, in reality, doing much worse for the casino than many of their machines. The regs in all states tell the casino what the maximum programmed hold can be, but there are no regs that tell players how many errors they can make.

[Eduardo]

The internal screen data shows the expected hold and the hold based on actual play. I have seen holds much, much higher than 8%. The reason is that most players make errors. By the way, this is not some big casino secret --- many casino attendants will allow a player to see the internals, including the player's past hold history. I have done this on numerous occasions if I have a question about a particular hand. Sometimes they have to get the slot supervisor, but it is not some big huge hush hush secret. A machine programmed for 1% or 1.5% hold that has an actual of 8% is, in reality, doing much worse for the casino than many of their machines. The regs in all states tell the casino what the maximum programmed hold can be, but there are no regs that tell players how many errors they can make.Good info, thanks.