Are These Games Rigged?

[ravenbynight111]

I had a friend who worked for harrahs, he was up the ladder and told me things were going to change. Comps cash airfare and lots of goodies.He was right on. The cost of going to Vegas and time in airports lines and checking in and transportation. I can be in Lake Charles la in 4 to 5 hours and they have 5 casinos in the area.I dont go often since my wife passed.

[FAA]

Car, sounds like you were playing $7.50 a spin. Fifty dollar hourly loss was pretty good!

[Carcounter]

FAA, no loss is good! $2.50 a spin on .50SDB, $5 dollars a spin on .25 Multi strikes. I always look at the long term and am still up considerably for the year due to 6K worth of royals in early April.

[FloridaPhil]

Being up or down year to year is meaningless.  I have been up numerous times in the past playing 96% games.  It's your lifetime results that matter and I'm no where close to beating the game long term.Beating video poker long term has got to be a long tedious job.   I can only image how difficult it must be today.  I know I would be doubting myself at every down turn and getting my family to go along with it would be practically impossible.  Sitting alone in the middle of the night contemplating what I am doing would be soul searching.  My guess is if those people put that much effort into any other career, they would be just as successful if not more so.   I respect them, but I don't want to be them.The question of the seemingly negative results since 2007 is an interesting one.  I remember when 9/6 quarter Jack or Better was practically the standard.  It was available all over Biloxi and you could even find NSU Deuces on occasion.   Slowly but surely 9/6 became 8/5, then 7/5.  Today, 7/5 Jacks is the default game in the Beau Rivage high limit room.  In our own Florida casinos, you could find 9/6 Jacks in triple play.  Those games are now 8/5.  Not only have odds been reduced, but the standard games are being replaced with high variance games.  These game bust most players before they have a chance to hit a good hand with a multiplier.  Unless you can play in one of the few casinos left where an advantage is possible, the best way to play VP today is as small as possible.  For me this means quarter play.  

[Carcounter]

Phil, I am not an AP. I play about 3 hours a week, usually on Friday afternoons. Where I differ from you is that I will not play anything less than a 99.54% game. Why should I when those games are there instead of a 97 % or 98% game. I am a Civil Engineer and I believe in the math. Again, why wouldn't I after playing approx.100,000 hands a year for the last 20 years and having my results be slightly better than expected, but not by much. I am slightly over-royaled, therefore am a little positive over that time. Remember too that prior to 2008, there were 100% plus games in AC and I took advantage of them. However, I do agree with you that an AP lifestyle is not for me. Even when there were positive games in AC, I maybe went down twice a week for a 3 hour session rather than once a week. I have said in previous threads that i saw what the AP lifestyle did to some AP's I knew in AC. They aged too quickly for me. Plus I have a successful consulting business that pays me way more than I could possibly make as an AP, certainly in AC and very likely in Las Vegas as well. So I agree with you on spending my time wisely. But I do agree with the math experts as well. It's not complicated. Sorry I din't catch up to you in AC.

[FloridaPhil]

If I had 99.54% and above games to play, I would play them exclusively as well.   I also most likely would have a different opinion of a VP career choice.  I don't, so my opinions are formed by my experiences.  I have been around long enough to see the degrading of VP odds.   Just recently, the 98.9% Deuces game we so coveted was replaced with a 96.7% game.   As you know, we travel all over the country to play VP.   This is happened where ever we go.   Except for a few scattered machines, the Borgata odds were as bad as anywhere we have seen.  It won't be long until VP returns are about equal with slots.  That's what the casino managers want and that's what they will get.Enjoy your games while you can.  Beatable video poker games are quickly disappearing. Players like me have two choices, quit playing VP all together or play small enough so your losses don't matter.  To be honest, the best way to play these new ultra negative VP games is one nickle or one quarter at a time at about 300 hands per hour.  Take lots of bathroom breaks and play with one one hand behind your back.   Better yet, tie two hands behind your back and play with your nose.  I understand math better than some on this forum think I do.  I know these new negative games are unbeatable.  I also know there aren't enough comps in the world to make up for their negativity.   I see 99% games in the high limit room and I have a calculator.  Running hundreds of thousand of dollars through these negative games will not make them profitable.   My calculator says you will lose more playing them bigger, a lot more.   Am I the only one who understands this?   I don't think so.  I'm just the only one who is willing to say so.

[Carcounter]

Well that's why I go down once a week instead of twice, like when we had dollar All Americans with a generous slot club. You would have played these Phil.

[FloridaPhil]

Recently, another poster made a big deal out of beating $5 machines.  This may be true somewhere else, not where we play.  At 500 hands an hour, $5 9/6 Jacks or Better (99.55%) played at max coins is a $55.75 an hour average loser if your royals appear on time.  You can easily lose $100 an hour playing quarters on a bad day.  What does a bad day cost at $5 a coin?  For that money the casino should kiss you every 5 minutes.Given our casino will give you the same free room for playing quarters, what could the casino possibly give us to make up the difference?   Even if you have to play 8/5 Jacks to play quarters, the cost is only $16.89 an hour saving you over $38 an hour. On a 40 hours week, you save $1,520 playing quarters. A one day ticket to Disney World is now over $130 plus everything making VP look like miniature golf.Playing $5 machines in Vegas may be a winner for someone.  If the casino is giving you free cars, free cruises, holding drawings you can win and paying you to play there, I can see it.  Who finds opportunities like that?  Not us, that's for sure.In addition, most players like us can not play 100% perfect long enough to hold any advantage or they don't have a big enough bankroll to last through the inevitable downturns.  Playing VP at $25 or more a hand is a gut wrenching psychological battle.  Few players have the pure guts to make it work.  I would rather take on Mike Tyson.

[billryan]

A blind man wanders into the Playboy Mansion and thinks he is in a fish market.
Of course you can't find opportunities if all you do is stick to the same bad games. You just planned a vacation to play video poker that took you to two VP deserts.
You go to places with bad games, claim its not just about VP, gripe about the games, but then post about not being able to find opportunities.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=BillRyan]You just planned a vacation to play video poker that took you to two VP deserts.
[/quote]I get your point.  What you don't get is we don't travel so we can play bad games.  We travel and there happens to be bad games where we are.  We went to AC because I wanted to visit my childhood home in Wilmington.  I was also curious about AC. My curiosity has been more than satisfied. VP for us is a sideline.  It's entertainment.   It's not profitable for many reasons.  To keep our cost down, we bet small.  It's a formula that works for us.  When you are retired you arrange your life the way that makes you happy.  That's what we do.  I am not griping about the games we play.  I am pointing out that not all $5 VP games are winners.  This was left out by the former poster.Discussing $5 VP game play on this forum does nothing to help average players.  It makes a point for someone who wishes to promote VP as being beatable, but it leads some to think beating VP is a matter of finances.  This is untrue.  Just because someone has a large amount of disposable income doesn't make them a VP winner.  Casinos spend millions to lure high rollers into their facilities.   They're not doing it so those players can live off their generosity.