How is this for irony

[FAA]

The machines are sending me clear messages about AC. Plenty of tin eared gamblers. Enjoying a local weekend instead. Hard Rock and Ocean will hopefully regain my interest.

[billryan]

[QUOTE=billryan]
Bunch of folks here are headed to Tampa for a "play".
Was tempted to join them but don't feel like boarding my dog again so soon. If this is, or was, a time limited play, would you be able to post details once it has run its course?[/QUOTE]


If the people on the trip think they have burned out the promo, I expect it will be public. It was hard not saying anything about the Colorado play when Phil supposedly was in the same casino but a few weeks later when the play was burned, it was discussed on Mr. Dancers program.
The problem is just because one casino catches on to an error doesn't mean a casino elsewhere won't do the same promotion.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]It was hard not saying anything about the Colorado play when Phil
supposedly was in the same casino but a few weeks later when the play
was burned, it was discussed on Mr. Dancers program.
[/quote]Somehow I find the image of you and "Mr. Dancer" circling Ultimate X machines hilarious.  I always pictured him being driven to the casino in a limo.   I see the casino manager meeting him at the door with a big smile and a handshake. They both attend a party to celebrate the casino's record profits.  While they are eating $2,000 Beluga caviar and drinking Dom Perignon they have a good time slapping themselves on the back and laughing at the fools who believe they can't lose playing with an edge.  I picture Billy at the buffet with a free coupon he found on the floor while his dog was being groomed with his comps.    The waitress gives him a look and asks if he would like to stop by her place for a drink.  He tells her "No thanks, I've gone 39,999 hands without a royal and my ship is about the come in."  As she walks away, she shrugs because she knows it's just another day in Vegas.  

[onemoretry]

I find the image of you and "Mr. Dancer" circling Ultimate X machines hilarious. 
While I do not profess to know the details of the promotions under discussion, I seriously doubt that circling ultimate X machines was involved.

For some reason, you appear to be completely oblivious to the fact that promotional opportunities do come along, either through casino marketing errors or whatever, and players can take advantage of them.

Seneca Niagara, for example, frequently has promotions where gift cards are awarded for play. Recently, I received $75 in gift cards for 30 points of play (that's $10500 coinin). So, in addition to the normal slot club benefits, worth 0.3% to 0.4%, I received just over 0.7% in cash equivalent. I was playing 8/5 bonus poker, with a theoretical return of 99.17%. I assume you can "do the math".

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry] I assume you can "do the math".[/quote]Yes I can.  I am fully aware of local promotions and take advantage of them.  I arrange my playing schedule to maximize my free play and comps.  I play as big as I need to in order to earn comped rooms, food and drinks as long as the cost of earning the comps doesn't cost more than they are worth.  I will not stand in line for hours waiting for a free jacket, cooler or a coffee cup. Scalping leftover Ultimate X multipliers came up when I offered to pay $100 to anyone who could provide me with an example of a long term positive VP game in Florida.  I did this in response to "Mr. Dancer's" claim that they exist but I won't play them.  So far no one has provided anything except the leftover multiplier scheme.  I knew they couldn't because they don't exist.If "Mr. Dancer" and Bill Ryan don't want to hear their names mentioned in my forum posts, they can stop referring to me by name on this forum.  They choose to live in a world totally consumed by gambling.  I'm pretty sure they know the odds to 6 digits of the Bellagio fountain  malfunctioning and the length of each spurt to the inch.   I choose to live in the world outside where people enjoy themselves without calculating the potential profit of everything they do.   Our worlds need not collide as long as we accept each other's personal decisions and coexist in peace. 

[Tedlark]

Phil not to split hairs but in the beginning you spoke of just "any" positive game in Florida. When the Ultimate X idea was presented to you, you then changed it to "long term" positive game. Just for the sake of clarity.

[FloridaPhil]

Just for the sake of clarity, I am sure "Mr. Dancer" does not circle Ultimate X games looking for left over multipliers.   If I discover he does, I would be seriously disappointed.  Anyone can see from his writing that he is a very intelligent person, at least on the subject of mathematics.   He doesn't seem like the kind of person I would want to spend a weekend with, but that's just me.   I respect his intellect.   I have said many times on this forum that I believe he is a great businessman and I have seen more than my share.What I would like to see happen on this forum is for everyone to back off, reset and acknowledge that how you play VP is a personal decision not based on your IQ.  I can well afford to play any VP game Mr. Dancer plays.  I don't because It doesn't fit into my long term financial plan.   I'm sure I'm not alone in this feeling.   I feel it's important to bring this fact into our discussions.  Just because math says betting $25 a hand on a positive VP game can make a long term profit doesn't mean everyone should do it.  For me, playing quarter VP is an entertaining way to spend an afternoon.   It relaxes me and I get to spend time with my wife watching her smile.  If I played $5 or bigger VP games, it would add another level of worry to an already stressful world.  It would turn an entertaining pastime into a job.  On the night after a bad day, I would wake up at 2 AM thinking how stupid I had been.  Bad days would consume me and my life would be miserable.   If "Mr. Dancer" does not have these problems, good for him.  I want players to know what they are missing.

[New2vp]

Phil not to split hairs but in the beginning you spoke of just "any" positive game in Florida. When the Ultimate X idea was presented to you, you then changed it to "long term" positive game. Just for the sake of clarity.Actually, Ted, he said "any positive VP opportunities in Florida
for anyone."  The requirement was not for a positive "game."  Of course opportunities include comps, etc., not just game EVs over 100%.  But playing off multipliers on games like Ultimate X, Multistreak, Build A Wheel poker are certainly over 100% without any comps.With "irony" in this topic's name, I find it ironic but not surprising that there is mocking of Dancer using the excuse that billryan used the letters P-h-i-l in sequence.  Dancer has let it be known that he chooses not to harvest Ultimate X multipliers with less than full coin on a number of occasions so as not to give any casino rationale to back him off."Vulturing" only occurs on games where the multiplier is available for a reduced coin in.  Certainly there is no shame in playing a game with full coin or reduce coin in.  Even with full coin in, one sees opportunities when the EV is positive.Another irony:  Is the king of one-coin play really saying that it is beneath someone to play a 10-coin game by using only 5 coins?  Really??Of course, there are also progressives that get over 100%.  But that doesn't matter.  Certainly no one here is surprised that statements from a couple frequent fliers are often off the mark or just flat out untrue.The exact quote is below.


[quote=markinca] For the general VPer who is willing to put in time to
learn the proper plays, I'm sure there are plenty of them.
I doubt there are any positive VP opportunities in Florida
for anyone.   If you can find one and prove it, I will happily mail you a
check for $100.  Just so you know, my checks don't bounce. 


[/QUOTE]The checks may not bounce, but the commitments do.  Unfortunately, most of us know people like this.  Long on BS.  Short on follow thru.  It is best not to depend on them and particularly not to depend on their word.  And never bet with them.  Welching on bets may be one of their only ways to get an edge.

[New2vp]

And for the sake of clarity, there is nothing wrong with half the quotations, but you can't be "half right half the time" and seriously criticize others are are more often right most of the time and be seen as a victim.Everyone but one person seems to get that.

[FloridaPhil]

I am not paying off on my offer unless someone shows me a long term positive VP game in Florida, not some one time gimmick.  This can include comps, but it has to be long term.  On that subject, I wonder what happens when you are down $50K playing a positive game and the next morning the casino reduces the odds turning that game negative?   UH OH, we're screwed now!The whole purpose of this exercise goes back to when "Mr. Dancer" said his sources told him there are positive VP opportunities in Florida. I
called his bluff and he has been "Dancing" around the issue with this Ultimate
X fairy tale.    I think we have a better chance of seeing Trump's tax
returns than any long term positive VP games in Florida. Mr. Dancer claims to live a "nice lifestyle" by playing VP.   Fine.   He says he does so by playing positive games.  Does this mean he only plays when a progressive gets large enough?  If so, I have never seen a progressive in Florida that could push the game positive.  Certainly not one that would fund a "nice lifestyle".   Maybe he wins a drawing?  Maybe he wins a car or a cruise?   If he doesn't believe in luck, what does he call it when his name is pulled out of a tub of tickets?    Can he count on winning enough drawings to pay his mortgage or even his hair stylist?Someone needs to come up with some facts so we can separate the real from the fiction.  Show me a long term positive VP game in Florida and I will pay up.