How is this for irony

[Eduardo]

So basically, people want to "get rich like Bob Dancer" by doing all of the things he warns them not to do, and that's his problem. Got it.Your final advice is good, that if people have a low bankroll and negative pay tables, they should play small if they play at all. So leave it at that. Nobody disagrees with that statement.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Eduardo]So basically, people want to "get rich like Bob Dancer" by doing all of
the things he warns them not to do, and that's his problem.[/quote]I said I would try not to use anyone's name on this forum, but you brought him up again.  I believe "Bob Dancer" was rich before he saw his first video poker game.  If you read his books he talks a little about his father's Real Estate career.  I can tell you from experience that Real Estate is more profitable than VP, it's also a lot more work.   "Bob" came into video poker right when casino gambling was beginning to proliferate across the country.   He studied Dan Paymar's theories and thought he could improve on them.    He had the guts to bet big money on being right.   It paid off in 2000 and launched his career as an AP and widely recognized VP expert. His strategy is based on math.  I am not arguing math.  In a computer lab under perfect conditions, it's flawless.  Unfortunately, players are not computers.  They are imperfect as I have listed above.  Video Poker Advantage play as a long term profit maker is a dream for most people.   "Bob" has not stated it exactly as I have, but has said many times that most people can't or won't do what he does.  I agree totally.My biggest problem with "Bob Dancer" is not his math.    It's when he tells players they are not playing big enough to gain an advantage.  He has said that to me in the past.   My take is "If you can't win playing quarters, you surely aren't going to win playing $5 games".   It's not the math that is flawed, it's the players.   What does he gain by telling players that risking $12,000 or more an hour is profitable?  When a celebrity endorses something, they must be aware that many people will try to emulate them.  In this case, the results are potentially devastating.I am a quarter player and everyone knows that.   I enjoy playing video poker for quarters.  My wife and I don't worry about losing because their aren't enough bad quarter days to cause us harm.  At $25 a hand, an error here and an error there has real consequences.   I want members who read my posts to know why we play the way we do.  It's not because we think there is anything wrong with Advantage Play Strategy.  It's because we know we don't have all it takes to make it work.

[Tedlark]

Phil here you go stretching the truth again. You should say that you are NOW strictly a quarter player. I seem to recall you stating several times over the years that you were also a dollar player. You've also taken $5.00 denom potshots as how many pictures of $625.00 wild royals have you also posted here?

I could be the one who is wrong though and if I am, I apologize.

[FloridaPhil]

For me, Video Poker is a work in progress.  I gave up $5 game pot shots when I quit playing single coin over a year ago.  I also always limited my single coin $5 pot shots to no more than $20 at a time.Since December, I quit playing dollar games unless I am double ahead for the day and I stick to my cash out limits.  I never up my denomination when I am behind.  I learned these things the hard way.  The best way for me to play VP is to stay a quarter player.   If I get behind now, I switch to a higher variance game and stick with quarters.  So far this has been very effective.   We'll see what happens in the future.

[New2vp]

If "Mr. Dancer" and Bill Ryan don't want to hear their names mentioned in my forum posts, they can stop referring to me by name on this forum.This was yesterday.  The last time that Bob Dancer made a post that had Phil's name in it was late on May 17, according to the Forum Search feature.I have counted 28 times that Phil has used Dancer's name since.  So much for Phil's commitment.  I'm guessing he doesn't even admit to himself that his obsession is at an epic level.







































[quote=Eduardo]So basically, people want to "get rich like Bob
Dancer" by doing all of
the things he warns them not to do, and that's his problem.I
said I would try not to use anyone's name on this forum, but you brought
him up again.  [/QUOTE]So now, today, the trigger is not Bob Dancer bringing up Phil's name.  It is anyone bringing up Bob Dancer's name.Boy, I hope that Dancing with the Stars never gets a contestant or professional named Bob.  That would really drive him crazy.  Or maybe it already has?  Well, I guess there are worse problems than twitching whenever someone is bobbing for apples or getting their hair cut in a bob.  I hope there are no bobcats in Florida.  Oh, there are?  Oh, well.

[DaBurglar]

I brought the following point up before, and I don't think anyone else has either remembered it or even understood it for what it truly means and does to all this "debating"....

Bob once flat out admitted that, in his "teachng" of the general public on how to become a video poker "winner", there are certain secrets (i.e. Insider Information) that he simply does not share because it's just too valuable and because it allows him to always stay on top of the pack which in turn helps his business as a "expert for hire"....it really is the ultimate disclaimer and escape clause for what he practices for a living!

That's all you need to tell me and I leave the guy and all these topics and arguments alone...it makes sense when you think about it, that Bob has "insider info" and access at certain casinos that no one else has or does, and this is ultimately what makes him who he is and keeps him going. To a lesser extent, all the legit mathematically and strategically sound VP advice he dispenses to players and practices himself, as well as the arduous drudgery that goes into keeping track, comparing and organizing all the evolving VP information and offers each week, is what he shows and tells the world he does to achieve what he does....but again, as stated before, Bob is first and foremost a salesman and a VP expert second.

I'm sure he never meant to let slip his usage and reliance on inside info, tactics and relationships to achieve much of his success but to anyone with a realistic view of gambling, casinos and people, it seems kinda obvious such a thing is reality.

[billryan]

I brought the following point up before, and I don't think anyone else has either remembered it or even understood it for what it truly means and does to all this "debating"....

Bob once flat out admitted that, in his "teachng" of the general public on how to become a video poker "winner", there are certain secrets (i.e. Insider Information) that he simply does not share because it's just too valuable and because it allows him to always stay on top of the pack which in turn helps his business as a "expert for hire"....it really is the ultimate disclaimer and escape clause for what he practices for a living!



That's all you need to tell me and I leave the guy and all these topics and arguments alone...it makes sense when you think about it, that Bob has "insider info" and access at certain casinos that no one else has or does, and this is ultimately what makes him who he is and keeps him going. To a lesser extent, all the legit mathematically and strategically sound VP advice he dispenses to players and practices himself, as well as the arduous drudgery that goes into keeping track, comparing and organizing all the evolving VP information and offers each week, is what he shows and tells the world he does to achieve what he does....but again, as stated before, Bob is first and foremost a salesman and a VP expert second.

I'm sure he never meant to let slip his usage and reliance on inside info, tactics and relationships to achieve much of his success but to anyone with a realistic view of gambling, casinos and people, it seems kinda obvious such a thing is reality.


This was nonsense the first time you posted it and is still nonsense after the dozen or so times you've posted it. Insider information comes with a price. If Mr. Dancer has inside information on a play, either he discovered it himself, was given it by someone who most likely wanted something in return, or he simply paid for it.

I know someone last month who discovered an incredible one time play but who didn't have the resources to properly exploit it. Luckily, he knew a few people who could properly play it and sold it to them for a cool $1,000. He didn't stumble into it, it was the result of a lot of very tedious hunting.

Just because a Sensei doesn't teach every one of his (non-paying)students his five finger death punch, that doesn't make him a bad teacher.
To get angry with a ninth grade algebra teacher because he says he is holding back knowledge of Advanced Calculus is pretty foolish.
Dancer teaches FREE classes geared to beginners. Even his advanced FREE classes don't seem to be geared to pros.

He does mentor students who show their worth and who can afford his private lessons. From listening to him talk about these, it seems he rejects way more people than he accepts. I don't know anyone who has taken his private mentoring so I have no idea if it is a value or not, although I strongly suspect the people who take them get their moneys worth.

I'm really not sure what else you want from him.


However, don't claim to leave the guy and these arguments alone and then post about them several times a year. It diminishes you, and your arguement.

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar
Video Poker Master
Video Poker Master

Posts: 4320
Quote DaBurglar Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2018 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by onemoretry


I do not understand why you think a person should put in all that effort to identify a superior play and then turn it over to another player to milk.


Oh, well I am disconcerted you don't "understand"... I don't see this as being such a big issue. You obviously do...

Sure, Don't Tell anyone "the secret" you busted your arse discovering, just post on a forum that you discovered it and tough nuts to everyone else...real nice.


Bob dancer, and those like him who sell info on casino games are salesmen first and pro gamblers second..... what's the big mystery here? If people want to pay for what he's peddling, great.... that's America.

I guess where I do diverge from Phil is just how offensive I find Bob's condescending personality and opinions about other VP players... I could care less, whereas Phil is greatly bothered. Phil, if you're out there reading this, it's not worth it my friend...but kudos to you for discovering the weirdness inherent in AC video poker!

Edited by DaBurglar - 19 May 2018 at 5:09pm



DaBurglar if the above may serve to refresh your memory. This was a post made by you on 5/19/18 in which you replied back to onemoretry, who wrote "I do not understand why" and ended with "to another player to milk."

Everything else was yours and you basically slammed Bob Dancer for not disclosing one of his "inside video poker finds" that he does not share.

But yet here in your post of 7:58 pm you say that you understand why he does not disclose certain plays and "that's all you need to tell me and I leave the guy and all these topics and arguments alone.

So, which is it?

[billryan]

By the way, anyone who thinks authors of video poker books are making any sort of money is sadly mistaken. I strongly suspect Mr. Dancer has had hundreds of premium hands that paid more than his annual income from both writing and teaching his classes some twenty five days a year.

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar] I brought the following point up before, and I don't think anyone else has either remembered it or even understood it for what it truly means and does to all this "debating"....

Bob once flat out admitted that, in his "teachng" of the general public on how to become a video poker "winner", there are certain secrets (i.e. Insider Information) that he simply does not share because it's just too valuable and because it allows him to always stay on top of the pack which in turn helps his business as a "expert for hire"....it really is the ultimate disclaimer and escape clause for what he practices for a living!



That's all you need to tell me and I leave the guy and all these topics and arguments alone...it makes sense when you think about it, that Bob has "insider info" and access at certain casinos that no one else has or does, and this is ultimately what makes him who he is and keeps him going. To a lesser extent, all the legit mathematically and strategically sound VP advice he dispenses to players and practices himself, as well as the arduous drudgery that goes into keeping track, comparing and organizing all the evolving VP information and offers each week, is what he shows and tells the world he does to achieve what he does....but again, as stated before, Bob is first and foremost a salesman and a VP expert second.

I'm sure he never meant to let slip his usage and reliance on inside info, tactics and relationships to achieve much of his success but to anyone with a realistic view of gambling, casinos and people, it seems kinda obvious such a thing is reality.


This was nonsense the first time you posted it and is still nonsense after the dozen or so times you've posted it. Insider information comes with a price. If Mr. Dancer has inside information on a play, either he discovered it himself, was given it by someone who most likely wanted something in return, or he simply paid for it.

I know someone last month who discovered an incredible one time play but who didn't have the resources to properly exploit it. Luckily, he knew a few people who could properly play it and sold it to them for a cool $1,000. He didn't stumble into it, it was the result of a lot of very tedious hunting.

Just because a Sensei doesn't teach every one of his (non-paying)students his five finger death punch, that doesn't make him a bad teacher.
To get angry with a ninth grade algebra teacher because he says he is holding back knowledge of Advanced Calculus is pretty foolish.
Dancer teaches FREE classes geared to beginners. Even his advanced FREE classes don't seem to be geared to pros.

He does mentor students who show their worth and who can afford his private lessons. From listening to him talk about these, it seems he rejects way more people than he accepts. I don't know anyone who has taken his private mentoring so I have no idea if it is a value or not, although I strongly suspect the people who take them get their moneys worth.

I'm really not sure what else you want from him.


However, don't claim to leave the guy and these arguments alone and then post about them several times a year. It diminishes you, and your arguement.
[/QUOTE]

Wtf? Nonsense? You just plopped one huge turd of nonsense with this overreacting....

Diminishes my argument? What argument? I'm not making an argument... I stated my own personal opinion and assessment of Bob with a view towards this ongoing debate/discussion of others that keeps circling back on itself, and the point I made about Bob admitting his use of insider info ( which has not been made dozens of times by me as you claim) is one that some People might find helpful in keeping gambling "classes" from so called experts, and resulting expectations in proper perspective.

You did not need to react the way you did...none of your criticism of what you mistakenly classify as MY CRITICISM of Bob makes any sense.