Musings of a casual recreational VP player.

[OTABILL]

I am getting tired constant posts emphasizing the long term when it comes to recreational VP. Telling people that the math will eventually even out is misleading as playing a sufficient number of hands over the long term cannot be guaranteed. My wife and I found that out almost two years ago because of health reasons as I posted in April 2017. Please read my post and replies at that time.

The “long term” is not guaranteed

If, and when we can resume playing VP, our outlook will be short term.

Two other related comments to contemplate:

(1) The objective of most recreational players like my wife and I is primarily entertainment and each outing is a separate event. The goal of course is positive monetary results but again is not the primary one for going to a casino for the night or even a trip to Vegas. Furthermore, I believe like us, most casual VP players have no desire to invest hours delving into the weeds of VP strategy. Learn the basics yes.

(2) Furthermore, I doubt few if any casual VP players play hundreds of thousands of hands over a significant time frame. This of course influences both short and long term positive and negative results.

In delineating recreational forum policies, Webman stated “The purpose of the Recreational Play forum is to allow a place for discussion for those who are concerned with playing video poker for entertainment only, without as much concern for statistically correct holds or advantage play.” Let’s stick to this dictum.

[FAA]

Amen. This math rubbish is downright hysterical. Each trip's a separate event, one I want to end positive or BE. If it means a 20 minute session, fine.

[Jstark]

Number 2 isn't necessarily true. I see the same people day in and day out banging away for hours upon hours at their favorite games.

[Gronbog]

In delineating recreational forum policies, Webman stated “The purpose of the Recreational Play forum is to allow a place for discussion for those who are concerned with playing video poker for entertainment only, without as much concern for statistically correct holds or advantage play.” Let’s stick to this dictum.
He also said that factual inaccuracies can be politely corrected. That's all I try to do. I have no issue with how or why anyone plays the game, but newbies read these forums and and don't have the experience to weed out fact from fiction. They need to be able make their decisions based on correct information and I try to provide that.

[FAA]

JS, that's pathetic. Imagine how many books they could be reading!

[markinca]

If, and when we can resume playing VP, our outlook will be short term.



What the heck does this even mean? Give an example of a hand, and how the short-term play differs from the long-term play.

[olds442jetaway]

     To me, knowledge is power and I do appreciate all of the time and effort some of the math folks go through to answer our statistical or frequency questions many of which have been mine. That said I do firmly believe one's lifetime is still short term as far as vp goes. I am using myself as an example. I play as most know who read my posts here between a million and two million hands a year. I almost always follow the strategy rules with a very few exceptions where over my entire session, the cost for making incorrect plays will be less than the buck or two I tip the waitress who brings me coffee or a drink.
     What all of this means is I have played over 25 or 30 million hands of video poker over the last 25 years at the Ct. casinos. My results as far as Royals go are off the charts below the rough average of every 40 or 50 thousand hands. On the other hand, my quad deuce hits are way above average maybe 20 percent or so. I still consider these results to be short term or after that many hands, I would be right about average for both hitting Royals and quad deuces. To me long term results are longer than one's lifetime, much longer and may even approach infinity. I wonder if there is any vp player out there who has had 3 instances of Royalless play of about 600,000 hands each time 3 times in the last 5 years. I seriously doubt it. Funny thing is i am about to compose another post about hitting a Royal yesterday among other good things. [IMG]smileys/smiley36.gif" align="middle[/IMG
     Edited to add, Otabill...I hope you and the Mrs are on the mend and can get back to the game you both love very soon.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=OTABILL] The goal of course is positive monetary results but again is not the
primary one for going to a casino for the night or even a trip to Vegas.[/quote]This is the major difference between "For Profit" players and "Recreational" players. Math is less important to a Recreational player because math has little effect on the amount of Recreation those players receive for their money.  No VP math equation includes a value for "fun".We all like to make a profit, but there are other things more important to Recreational players.   At the top of the list is the pure enjoyment of playing the game.  Double double bonus is the most popular Recreational game at our casinos because it's the most fun,   It's also the worst game from a profit standpoint.  Second is the length of play.  Recreational players want their recreation to last as long as possible.  Third is the cost of play.  Recreational players don't want to walk out of the casino broke.    For us, profit is something that comes along once in a while, but is father down on the list of reasons we play VP.  I am speaking for myself here.  Others may feel differently.As a Recreational player, I believe the term "long term" in VP is meaningless.  It's primarily used so players who rely on mathematics for profit can explain widely divergent results.  We have players on this forum who report playing for years without hitting a royal flush.  I have hit four in one day, five so far this year.  Am I more skillful?  Hardly.VP math is valuable.  Without it we wouldn't have perfect hand strategy and computer software to tell us the best way to play the game.  I personally believe this revelation alone has been the largest contributor to our improved results.   It has also caused casinos to reduce the odds to make up for today's more accurate players.Recreational VP players do things that an AP would never do (as far as I know).  I went to the casino yesterday.    I played quarter Bonus Poker, Deuces Wild, Double Double Bonus, Joker Poker and slots.  I switched games all day, stuck to my limits and came home with a $50 profit.  All the games I played had a significant house edge.   Why didn't I lose?   Because I went to the casino with the goal of coming home with money left and I did everything I could to make my goal happen.Some members of this forum love to absorb themselves in VP math.  I think that's great.  To those members, VP math is actually a separate game aside from the game itself.  They craft intricate formulas to justify their strategies and will argue forever about something few Recreational players care about.  To those who do care, it extends their enjoyment of VP, bolsters their discipline and makes them feel good when their math is right.  When someone reports a different result, they can use the term "long term" to dismiss it as an anomaly. I do not believe math controls all the possible VP results I will have over my lifetime.  If others do, no harm done.  It's just another part of the game.

[Tedlark]

Phil I'm having difficulty getting over your "recreational players are more concerned about entertainment value than making a bit of coin" speed bump. If this were true then recreational players would leave the casino either completely even or down because any money they make would get tossed back into the machine for "the entertainment"?

[Jstark]

Next time any of you are in a casino, just watch all of the "smiling" faces at the machines getting their load of "entertainment."