Musings of a casual recreational VP player.

[Tedlark]

Phil, you wrote: "Learn to live with quarter play and like it or get used to losing most of the time." Would you offer this same advice to a recreational player if they were a DISCIPLINED recreational player?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Tedlark]Would you offer this same advice to a recreational player if they were a DISCIPLINED recreational player?[/quote]If you have the bankroll and the discipline to stay within it, I see no problem with playing at whatever denomination you can afford.   When I write these posts, they are directed at the everyday Recreational players I encounter at the casino.   I don't play next to APs.  An AP would never play the games I have to play.  Saying you have discipline and actually having it are two different things.  Everyone starts out with a plan.   It's like Mike Tyson famously said "Everyone has a plan until the they are punched in the mouth."    The casino is always throwing punches at you.  "Play at our casino and hit more royals!"  "VP is beatable!"   "Players live a great lifestyle from VP!"   "You can make millions playing this game!"   They do everything they can to entice you to play bigger and longer.   Few people benefit from these dreams.I think it was Clint Eastwood who said "A man's got to know his limitations."   This is true in video poker as well.   If you have the discipline of steel, the skill of a computer, the endurance of a marathon runner and the bankroll of Bill Gates, I say play at whatever denomination feels good.  For mere mortals like myself, playing small is the best plan.

[FAA]

Yes. Live to fight another day. Or Week, in my case. Saturday's session was thrilling, and I came away unscathed. But I can't keep wandering into the lion's den. Those kings are famished.

[Gronbog]

I am against playing above your bankroll no matter what the odds are.Extremely wise words. In my opinion this concept is the one most often ignored with disastrous results  by players at all levels.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=gronbog]Extremely wise words. In my opinion this concept is the one most often
ignored with disastrous results  by players at all levels.[/quote]I agree.  I believe this problem accounts for more losses than all the negative games put together.   If you have a quarter sized bankroll,  play quarters.  You will be much better off in the long run.This is especially true of Recreational players as we normally playing negative games to begin with,   It's a great thrill for a quarter player to hit a max coin dollar jackpot.  However, if you are always running out of money it doesn't happen often enough.  When the casino busts you, the game is over.  A $1,000 royal could be just around the corner, but you threw all your ammunition away going for $4,000.   I switched to all quarter play last fall.  If I get the urge to gamble now, I switch games not denomination.   The result has been five royals, back to back $500 quad aces and coming home with money the majority of the time.  Lucky?  Yes.   If I was driving home broke instead of sitting in the seat playing VP, I most likely would not have seen all of them.  You have to be in the game to win.[quote=BillRyan]Beware the dollar Succubus![/quote]Your bankroll is more than money.  It includes your psychological bankroll as well.   You may have the financial ability to play $5 games, but do you have the ability to shrug off huge losses for the expectation of a big pay day that may never come?   The reason I don't play high dollar VP has nothing to do with how much money I have in the bank.  As a kid,  I was taught that money had value and the only way to get any was to work for it. Death is the big equalizer and I want to leave my money to someone other than the casino's stock holders. You can argue that VP is beatable and I will listen.  I know for a fact that there are a few players who make money at the game.  That's not the issue.  The only issue I am concerned with is, Will I?   In my case the answer is NO.  My answer has nothing to do with any deficiency of intelligence, math, odds, strategy or bankroll.  Quarter play works for me.  I get more fun out of hitting 4 aces with a kicker for $500 than losing 20 times more to win $10,000 with a W2G.   To me the game itself is the entertainment, not the money.

[FAA]

If the game itself is the entertainment, just play from the comforts of home! Mr. Disingenuous on Line 1. Por favor.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]If the game itself is the entertainment, just play from the comforts of home![/quote]You have a good point.  I have been playing more VP at home myself lately.   The chairs are more comfortable and the attendant is a LOT friendlier.  

[OTABILL]

Because of ongoing health issues, I have not been able to compose a coherent response to those who commented on my original post. In the interim, the replies have gotten away from casual VP. So here goes:

olds442jetaway: Otabill...I hope you and the Mrs are on the mend and can get back to the game you both love very soon.

Thanks Olds for your kind thoughts and wishes. Hopefully, one day we will if things work out and there are smoke-free options available to us.

JStark:   Number 2 isn't necessarily true. I see the same people day in and day out banging away for hours upon hours at their favorite games.
Next time any of you are in a casino, just watch all of the "smiling" faces at the machines getting their load of "entertainment."

Agreed, however I am talking about casual VP players not regulars regardless of whether they are regular recreational players, serious recreational players, pros, AP Semi pros or even problem gamblers let alone casual players who play on an ad-hoc basis. There are probably hundreds of varieties of VP players among the thousands who sit down in front of a machine.

Regarding your second point. I am sure that is true regarding many folks you see. When I did not do well, that would describe me. However. I would not be smiling not winning at bingo, having a bad day bowling (when I was playing on a team, or engaging in any similar activity. . You would definitely not see me smiling in the past when playing VP and a smoker sat down next to me or “put” out a cigarette in a tray next to my seat.

FP: We all like to make a profit, but there are other things more important to Recreational players.   At the top of the list is the pure enjoyment of playing the game. Double double bonus is the most popular Recreational game at our casinos because it's the most fun.

I have to agree with this statement regarding my wife and myself. We would never have played VP if monetary gain was our objective; fun and winning is/was the goal.

Markinca: What the heck does this even mean? Give an example of a hand, and how the short-term play differs from the long-term play.

You are misreading my post. I am not talking about the strategy used playing hands during a session. Regardless of long or short term, optimal strategy is what to use. I am referring to each time one goes to a casino to play VP. That may be the last time we can go given our past experience. Therefore, should we play VP again in a casino, we would not assume there would be another time we could go. Hope that clarifies my post.

Gronbog: I have no issue with how or why anyone plays the game, but newbies read these forums and don't have the experience to weed out fact from fiction.

The post was just to provide my perspective on VP and reality as a casual recreational player. It is/was not my intention to suggest how anyone should play VP. However, folks should be aware that the long run is not guaranteed. That’s life.

Carcounter: Count me as a recreational player who thinks winning is important, otherwise I would not keep detailed records.

You are a serious, recreational VP player. I appreciate that and respect you for that. You validate my point that there are numerous types of recreational players with different perspectives. We cannot all be lumped together.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=OTABILL] There are probably hundreds of varieties of VP players among the thousands who sit down in front of a machine.
[/quote]Great post! If you ask 100 players what they want from a day of VP,  their first answer will be... to win money.   If you ask them what they are willing to do to accomplish it, you will get a wide range of answers.   Recreational players weigh the cost vs. the reward.    Except for a few fortunate players in Vegas, the financial and emotional cost of finding and playing a positive VP game is too great for most players, so they play what's available.  Players who play negative VP games know playing smaller is financially better long term.  Some choose to play big regardless and are willing to pay for the privilege.  The game of Video Poker is the same for everyone.  Math does not change.   The players are different.  There is not now or will there ever be "one size fits all" answers to all questions regarding video poker.

[FAA]

Playing big has been horrible. A couple of thrills and ten times the chills. Revenge is not a viable option.