Battling the heat

[FloridaPhil]

Let's clear the air on these two subjects.Losing MoneyYes, I have lost a lot of money playing video poker in the past.   In the early days I was convinced I could beat the casinos.  I read books where ex data base programmers made millions.  I figured I could too.  It didn't work out that way for me.  It caused me a lot of pain and heartbreak.   Fortunately for me, the damage was mental.   My bankroll was big enough, but my head told me to quit before I gave it all away.   For me gambling is a loser.  I eventually learned to enjoy playing small and it changed everything.   I am very good at making money and the casino is not the place to do it. "Bob Dancer Enterprises"I have stated many times that I do not know or have I ever met the person who calls himself "Bob Dancer".   I am commenting here because some members have suggested I have a personal vendetta against him.   When I use this name, I am not talking about a person.  I am talking about the fictitious name he uses for his business.   If I met the person behind that name, I am pretty sure we would get along.  We would still disagree on a few things, but we wouldn't try to gouge each other's eyes out.I agree with the "Bob Dancer" approach to playing video poker.  I believe his personal methodology includes a lot more than playing video poker.  If you devote your entire life to something, you will figure out how to profit from it.   He has written stacks of books on the subject, has his own radio show and consults for casinos.  He is recognized as the world wide expert on the game.  He will forget more about VP in the next five minutes than I will ever know.  I don't envy him, I am not jealous of him and I don't want to be him.  I do disagree with some of his statements.I do not believe the VP house edge is beatable unless the game is supporting you in some other way.  I do not believe playing with an edge is a guarantee of profit.  It creates a profit for "Dancer" enterprises by selling books, services and radio show listeners.  Mr. Dancer lives a "nice lifestyle" from video poker because he works both sides of the business, not just the game.   I had no personal issues with Mr. Dancer until he wrote an article stating he would be OK if his daughter married a professional gambler.   That was where it changed for me.  This was so distasteful to me personally that I decided enough was enough.   Professional gambling is not a career choice I want anyone to have, much less someone who is married to one of my kids.In Vegas there has to be more than one successful VP professional.  Why is it that we only hear from one and he is the one selling us on the idea?  A successful professional gambler wouldn't need or want to expose his methods to the world.   This is so clear to me, I can't believe others can't see right through it. I think playing with an edge is great.  Who doesn't want the best chance of winning?   I believe the house edge is unbeatable even with an advantage.   That's not my main argument with "Bob Dancer".   My issues are his legitimizing of professional gambling as a lifestyle and his statements indicating a player should play as large as necessary to gain an edge.  I disagree with both because they have the potential to hurt people.   If one in a million make it, where does that leave the others?Perhaps if "Mr. Dancer" clarified his statements, I could live with them.  I doubt he will as both are designed to fill the casinos with eager gamblers.  That is the edge he is talking about.

[wildman49]

I do not believe the VP house edge is beatable. I think it's beatable if you have a HUGH bankroll.I finally got to chat with a AP here in a smaller Michigan Casino. He told me about playing $50 a hand poker a few years back. He was getting drawn so much for promo's people complain to management. He also hit two 40k royals and other big hits over a 6 week time frame.All of a sudden the $5/$10 machines where gone. He was told they doing some remodeling and they will be back. They never put them machines back. The biggest you can play now is $1 single line. There 10 play is still there on bar tops but they took off all the games but 2, DDB and TDB.So what I see is this casino don't want AP's in there cleaning up. So if that can happen here why not in other markets? I can't understand why any casino would make it easy for big bankroll AP's to clean them out without a fight.At the bigger casino there is this $100,000 give away in Jan-March every year where one person gets 100k at the end of the each month. It was called pay off your house promo. I heard there was teams ganging up, and playing on one card to build entrees. They kicked many out. The last few years the promo has changed. They now have 10 keys to a lock on a house door. As they call names you pick a key, if it opens you get the 100k. If not then they call another name who picks from 9 keys. This stops the big bankroll players from having there advantage. At some point any casino should be able to stop or slow down any big bankroll player, but they will always find a way to beat the house in some small way but is it enough?

[FloridaPhil]

What I see is a consistent dropping of the odds, especially in the high limit room.  I suppose this is to discourage professionals.  Florida does not have these issues.  Rarely does a promotion or a progressive jackpot become profitable enough to attract pros.   I don't know what's going on in Vegas because I don't play there.   Vegas VP is not the same game most of us play outside of Nevada.   I understand this.The players I am speaking to on this forum are average Janes and Joes.  Most of us will never play enough hands to see a "long term" result.    When I came to this forum eight years ago, it was totally Vegas play concentric.   My hope was the Recreational Forum would change that.I think we are making progress on that front.  I don't post of the Strategy Forum and my critics have, with a few exceptions, left us alone.  I see this as a good thing and I hope it continues.   Video Poker should be big enough for everyone.

[onemoretry]

]I had no personal issues with Mr. Dancer until he wrote an article stating he would be OK if his daughter married a professional gambler.   That was where it changed for me.  This was so distasteful to me personally that I decided enough was enough.   Professional gambling is not a career choice I want anyone to have, much less someone who is married to one of my kids.
And here, in my opinion, is where you've gone completely "off the rails" You have, I believe, convinced yourself that because you haven't been successful at gambling, no one can. Sure, lots of people try it and fail, but not everyone fails. Names like Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Daniel Negraneau and the person known as Bob Dancer come to mind. And, there are, no doubt, countless others.

[FloridaPhil]

Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson and Daniel Negraneau are all live poker players.   Live poker is not video poker.  In live poker you can bluff your opponent and with skill you can read their cards from their expressions and the bets they make.  I have numerous friends who do well playing live poker.  None of them are professionals.   They earn their money from outplaying other players, not trying to beat the casino at their own game.   You can not bluff a video poker machine and you can never predict what the next hand will bring.   The best you can do in video poker is use math to predict the odds, select the cards and hope for the best. I would not want my daughter to marry a professional gambler.  In my opinion the risk is too great for a family man.  I don't want my daughter on my doorstep with my grand kids crying because a royal flush didn't happen on time or a progressive play backfired.   The Internet says "Bob Dancer's" family had money before he saw his first video poker machine.  If you ask him, perhaps he may comment.  This in no way diminishes his accomplishments.  However, this may explain why losing doesn't bother him as much as it does me.   If you inherited millions, losing a few hundred thousand is only an annoyance.   My family was not rich.  Some people would say I am now.   Where someone get's their money is not important.  How someone losses it can be.

[Tedlark]

Phil you just said "Where someone gets their money is not important." This contradicts your stance on your not wanting your daughter to marry a professional gambler. How about drug dealers, where they got their money is not important? How about bank robbers?

And, as Galeygoo stated: get over your Bob Dancer fixation. I too, have said that same thing.

Geez.....

[FloridaPhil]

Where someone gets their bankroll makes no difference to the game.   If you wash bathroom floors for a living or your father was Donald Trump, the machine doesn't care.  The difference is in your attitude.  If you came by your money easily, you may not have the same fear of losing it.   If you clawed your way up from nothing, you tend to be more conservative about the risks you are willing to take.   In video poker, the fear of losing or the lack of it can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending upon how the cards fall.   I think a fear of losing is an advantage for me as it keeps me from playing until the casino has all my money.   I suspect "Bob Dancer" feels differently.   If you have so much money that losing doesn't matter, you have no fear of taking risks. Taking risks can pay off on occasion, especially in a game where one or two hands can make a huge difference in your results.  That's why I do not fear taking $20 pot shots or play CS.  A win or loss one way or another is not going to change my lifestyle.No one here wants their kids to struggle.   We want the best for them.  We also want them to do better than we did.  Some kids don't measure up to the standards we set for them as parents.  If they want to spend their entire life in a casino, that's their choice.  I would hope my kids are smarter than that.

[OTABILL]

FP: I agree with Ted and Gale about constantly bringing up on or responding to posts concerning Dancer. In particular, referring to "the person who calls himself "Bob Dancer"". That is his name. People in the public eye, particularly in the entertainment business do not go by their birth names. Yo u wouldn't refer to John Wayne, Tony Curtis, Bob Hope etc. in that way. I highly doubt you are jealous of him, just somewhat obsessed.

I like your posts when they focus on your recreational experience. That's fine but constantly repeating yourself doesn't enhance your image.

The above advice is from someone who appreciates your presence especially getting the recreational topic established as part of the forum.

[billryan]

Hey, Webman.
A month ago, you told me to not post in the recreation forum and that phil should restrain from posting anywhere but in said rec forum.
I have honored your request while phil continues to post where he wants, when he wants. The only thing consistent in his posts is eventually it turns to insulting Dancer and people who actually understand math.
Does he have compromising photos of you or something?
Why is he allowed to ignore your rules while others observe them?
You were nice enough to give him his nice new forum, complete with padded walls. Please ensure he stays where you told him to.

[FloridaPhil]

Billy,  I am banned from the Strategy Forum and you are banned from the Recreational Forum.  Should we both be banned form the Stories Forum as well?  Perhaps both of us should be banned entirely?  Why don't we ban everyone from the forum except "Bob Dancer"?  I'm sure that would make him happy.  He could turn the entire forum into one huge infomercial and give away two books for the price of one.These discussions come about because players attack others.   Read Tedlark's first post in this thread and see how many times he mocks my name.  What would you say if he had written that about you?   Should webman ban him as well?If you don't want to read these kinds of posts, don't start them in the first place.