Ain't it a kick in the head.

[billryan]

One of my fraternity brothers recently retired from Wall St. and moved to Summerlin.
His daughter went to school at UNLV and stayed out here so he moved more to be near her than for gambling.
He plays low stakes but and is just learning JOB.

Saturday night, we drive down to Primm for a concert.
After an incredible opening set by Los Lobos, we hit the casinos center bar, mostly to suck down a few free drinks rather than pay the $8.50 a drink in the arena.
We sit and see the best game seems to be JOB but it's 8-5. He reminds me that I told him not to play short pay games but I explain that this is an exception. I say that since we are only playing very short term, the free drinks we get will overcome the disadvantage.
Pop $20 in a machine and get a rum and coke, he does same but drinks Gentleman Jack.
My very first hand, four to a flush, pull the right card and get shorted five coins.
Perhaps a dozen hands later, get a short pay Full House. Another five coins lost.
Last hand of the night, hold a pair of Kings, draw three Jacks. Initially, I'm thinking it's 4oak but no, only another short pay house.
Over the course of ten minutes or so,playing short cost me $3.75. Can't imagine what playing for a weekend would cost. I did cash out $6.25 up, so after my $3 tip, I'm up about $20 after not paying $17 for two drinks.
On the other hand,my friend played almost as many hands, didn't hit a FH or a Flush but cashed out down $5 plus his tips, but still saved money over just buying two drinks in the venue.
Went back and saw an incredible set by a band called The Mavericks ,who flawlessly mix TexMex country with the Miami Sound Machine, with a twist of zydeco and humour.

[FloridaPhil]

Sounds like you had a great time. The deal you got is similar to the deal we get when we go to Biloxi. The VP odds stink, but the Beau Rivage is one of the nicest hotels on the Gulf Coast. They fly us round trip from Florida to Gulfport, drive us from the airport to the hotel and back, comp a gulf front room for three days and give us free buffet tickets. The deal costs $50, but they give us $50 in free play. We learned this arrangement works if we limit our losses. There is no limit on how much we can win. As long as we don't overpay for a nice three day vacation, it's worth the trip.

I'm glad you posted this story. It's OK to play negative VP if you get value in return and you don't overpay for what they give you.

[billryan]

IF the benefits exceed the expected losses, then you aren't playing a negative game.

[DaBurglar]

Good story, good post...

From 1995 to around 2005, when I was working on the West coast and spent the majority of that in the Los Angeles area, most of my weekends and a few of my weeks were spent in Vegas for both business and pleasure. When I chose to drive however (or be driven), on weekends, I often would stop in primm and spend at least one night, sometimes two or three, at Buffalo Bills or whiskey Pete's. It shortened the trip almost 45 minutes and the fun and gambling (back then, especially the sports betting) was a great value, superior to most of the Vegas strip and on par with Downtown Fremont Street.

The spirit of Billy's post made me nostalgic.

[Tedlark]

Los Lobos opening for The Mavericks? Sounds like a great night BR and I'm glad you had fun. Another good thing about the Las Vegas area is that concerts like this go on all the time and you can get reasonably priced tickets for many acts.

Phil, you haven't reported any Biloxi action as of late: have you been there recently? I've never been to Biloxi but I get occasional offers and would entertain a trip to the MS coastal area.

[billryan]

Almost every venue in the country has a source for papering the house. A day or two before a show, they open up house seats to a select group,often for free or a minimal service fee.
It's a rare week I don't see at least one free show. Same as when I lived in NY.
Generally, these offers are locals only.

[FloridaPhil]

Phil, you haven't reported any Biloxi action as of late: have you been there recently? I've never been to Biloxi but I get occasional offers and would entertain a trip to the MS coastal area.

We last went for my birthday in February. The Beau Rivage was as beautiful and hospitable as ever. It's a mini Bellagio on the Gulf. The people who work there are great. As soon as my wife can travel, we're going back.

Biloxi is a place where the value is in the experience. It's a great couples vacation. The VP odds aren't good, so you need to limit your play. If you play big, the 3% Mississippi gaming tax will be taken out before you get your money.

There are a number of casinos in the area. We like casino hoping, so we always have a good time. The drive down the beach to the Silver Slipper is always fun. We stop for lunch at one of the waterfront restaurants and visit the Island View Casino on the way.

I got lucky last February and hit a $1,000 royal on a 6/5 Bonus Poker machine. You can find 7/5 if you look. The best odds are at the IP. Some of my best days have been in Biloxi. You can have a good time there if you set limits and stick to them. If you are a dollar player and have a run of bad luck you are going to leave there significantly poorer. Playing negative games takes discipline and money management. A free beer isn't free if you lost $100 to earn it.

[FloridaPhil]

This is a great subject. It brings up an excellent question.

Is their value in being able to play the game itself?

Players who live in Vegas surrounded by casinos might not feel the same way about this as I do. Florida has only had casinos for the last 10 years or so. The first video poker game I played was on a Vegas vacation about 20 years ago. After that we had to drive 550 miles to Mississippi to play the game. When Florida put in real video poker we were thrilled. Instead of driving all day, we could play locally. This saved us a lot of money in gas, lodging and other expenses. It allowed us to play our favorite game whenever we wanted. To keep us coming back, the Florida casinos offered better odds and comps than the competition.

It costs money to build and run casinos. They have to buy the land, build the buildings, buy the machines, pay employees, pay taxes and everything else that comes with running a business. To keep their customers happy they have to deliver what they want. With all of the casino competition today, they have to keep delivering or someone else will get their customers. How can anyone expect all this to be free much less pay them money to play?

When we go to the casino we compare the cost to our other entertainment options. If it cost $300 to go to an Orlando Magic game or Disney World, would we rather go to the Hard Rock? The last time I checked the Magic and Mickey weren't paying for royal flushes. When you calculate the "net odds" on one of these games, we think you should factor in the odds, comps and the value of the entertainment we well. The value of the casino experience is up to the player. In our case the best value for our money is playing quarter VP five coins at a time.

[Carcounter]

Seems like everyone is getting along and making good posts. Hope it keeps up.

[FAA]

That's just it. Multiplexes, arenas, theaters and stadiums aren't paying for premium hits. We have about a 5-10% chance of a free trip. That number rises the less I play.