Playing Single Coin VP for Retirees

[FloridaPhil]

I did not create this post to convince anyone to play single coin video poker. I created it to help my retiree friends who enjoy the casino gambling experience and would like to do more of it cheaper. For most forum members, this post does not apply and some may have a hard time understanding the need for it. I ask you to read the entire post before posting a comment.

Playing single coin VP is not about profit making. In the vast majority of video poker games, when you play single coin you are increasing the house edge by at least 1%. This is due to giving up the bonus that is paid for a max coin royal flush. For example, the most common and popular video poker game where I play is 8/5 Double Double Bonus. This game pays 4,000 coins or $1,000 for a max coin $1.25 bet. The same game pays $62.50 for a single coin royal flush. Playing single coin cost you $937.50. This is a significant difference.

A royal flush happens on average about once every 40,000-45,000 hands. This means you will need to invest in the game waiting until a royal appears. If the game is negative, as most of today's VP games are, your investment will most likely exceed the royal bonus. The net effect of this math is a net loss over time. Playing negative video poker games is always a long term loser. The longer you play or the bigger you play, the more you lose. There is NO play strategy that will change that fact.

This can change if the game's odds plus comps and/or incentives turns the combined Expected Return positive. Most casino comps and incentives reward "coin in". "Coin In" is the amount of money per hour that is put into a casino game. A player who plays max coin quarters is putting $1.25 into the machine on every hand. If that player plays 500 hands an hour, the coin in is $1.25 times 500 or $625 an hour. More "coin In" equals more comps and better offers. Less coin in reduces comps and offers.

There is another factor that influences the decision to play single coin VP. Most players play VP for entertainment. A big part of the entertainment of playing VP is the anticipation of hitting the biggest jackpot, a royal flush. If you remove the royal flush bonus, you remove a big part of the excitement of playing the game. Hitting a single coin royal flush is very depressing. Your friends will call you an idiot and the little voice in your head will agree with them.

With these facts in mind, why would anyone want to play VP with no royal flush bonus and few comps or incentives?

Playing video poker costs money to play. Before you hit the deal button, you must put some money in the machine. To turn the lights on, that money could be anywhere from a nickel to a $100. Because you are waiting for a jackpot, you will lose most of the time. How long will it take before you recoup your losses? You could hit a royal on your first day and stay ahead for a long time. You could also never hit a royal. The more hands you play, the more your results will reflect the game's actual odds.
Experts say you need 4-6 times a royal to keep you in the game long enough for your jackpots to influence your results. In the case of a quarter player who plays max coins, that's $4,000 to $6,000 dollars. For a dollar player, that's $16,000 to $24,000. Statisticians tell us 34% of Americans have no savings. 57% have less than $1,000 saved for an emergency. How many of those people are gambling in a casino? Hopefully not many.

There is another group of players that play VP in a casino. Those players are retirees. These players have money, but they are hesitant to spend it. They don't know how long their money will need to last. They don't know what health or family problems may arise and they spent a lifetime saving for their golden years. When you aren't making money and you are living solely on your retirement income, your attitude toward money changes. You become extremely frugal. In the old days, these people would put their money in a mattress or seal it up in a wall of their house. Some lived like paupers and their money was discovered after they died. Many of those older players you see in a casino feel that way. They go to the casino to get away from the house, meet with friends and enjoy the experience. Making money in a casino is something that happens on rare occasions and it's always an unexpected surprise.

Should these people be told they shouldn't play VP? They have the money to play, but they fear risking it. Many retirees go to the casino with $50 bucks. Try nursing $50 a day in a casino and see how that works out. You see them playing very slowly or not at all. Maybe they are annoying to you because they are tying up your favorite machine playing keno?

If you are putting one quarter in the machine each time you hit the deal button and hit four aces with a kicker and win $100, does it feel better or worse than putting $1.25 in the machine 40,000 times waiting for $1,000? Of course you could hit a royal in the first 10 minutes. That's why it's called gambling.

I talk to a lot of seniors when I am at the casino. I tell them I go to the casino one day a week and play on vacation. Most tell me they would love to do what I do but they don't have the money. I tell them they can do what I do on a budget if they will change their expectations. All they have to do is give up the dream of hitting it big and concentrate on the enjoyment of playing the game. One strategy is playing single coin VP.

Playing single coin VP does not pay any better than max coins. The game odds are what they are and nothing you can do with the machine's buttons will change that. As with all VP games, play the best odds. In my case that is single coin quarters. I can play max coin nickels, but the overall odds are worse. Do not play single coin VP bigger than quarters no matter what the odds are. The objective of playing single coin is to extend playing time. You will see more jackpots this way, but they will be smaller. Playing single coin dollars is foolish because you are only betting a quarter per hand less than max coin quarters and you are giving up the royal bonus. Never bet 2, 3 or 4 coins for the same reason. Play either single coin cheap or max coins and wait for a royal.

In the long term, most single coin quarter players will lose less money than a max coin quarter player. This is because most quarter VP games are negative even with comps. If you go to the casino with $100, you are guaranteed to play 80 max coin quarter VP hands at $1.25 a hand. If you play the same $100 with single coin quarters, you are guaranteed to play 400 single coin quarter VP hands. More hands equal more jackpots. Are you "playing" VP to see jackpots or "paying" to see bigger jackpots? In the long term, if the game is negative you are going to pay to play. How much you pay is adjustable by how much you bet.

None of this makes sense to a player who can play positive VP games or who can earn comps that turn the game positive. It also doesn't make sense to play single coin if you are only going to go to the casino a few times a year. It can be helpful to someone who wishes to play a lot of VP on a budget where only negative VP games are available.

If you are going to play a lot of VP, you should be aware of the probable long term results. Can you afford to lose $5,000 a year waiting for a royal flush? Can you play this game for years on end with negative results? Is the enjoyment you derive from playing the game worth the price?

There is no one answer to these questions that fits all players. Everyone's tolerance level for losing is different. Bankrolls are different. The games and comps offered are different . Even the reasons players go to the casino are different. Matching your personal goals, with the offerings at your casino and your limitations is the best way to reach them.

[olds442jetaway]

In my opinion if the casinos would just pay the correct amount for the royal for bet One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to fit 5/ One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to bet 5 qyarters Or five dollars at a time.

[olds442jetaway]

Still practicing using Siri. I meant pay the correct amount for that still practicing using Siri. I meant pay the correct amount for bet one

[FloridaPhil]

In my opinion if the casinos would just pay the correct amount for the royal for bet One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to fit 5/ One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to bet 5 qyarters Or five dollars at a time.

Obviously, the casinos needs to pay for the machines and the floor space. In most cases, more coin in equals more profit for the casino. That's the reason for the royal flush bonus. Why would the casino offer this bonus, more comps and better mailers if that was not the case? Vegas players and a few Advantage players in the higher denominations can gain an edge on the casino. The majority of today's quarter players can not.

It takes a different mind set to play single coin VP. You tend to look at your results on a daily basis. One out of 10 times you are going to lose regardless. Coming home down $250 becomes coming home down $50. Over a year's time this could mean more money in your savings account. You are tempted to hit the ATM less. Losses become more manageable and playing VP for fun more justifiable. A 96% VP game is unbeatable no matter how many coins you play. If you are going to play them, you might as well play as cheap as possible.

In today's world of 96% quarter VP and worthless comps, playing single coin becomes an option. If you are going to do it, start playing single coin and stay there. Switching coins or denominations mid play attempting to trick the machine into a profit is worse than playing single or max coins.

There are some players who play VP the way they enjoy playing regardless of the consequences. I think that's OK as long as they know what they are doing and are good with the result.

[FAA]

Dump Siri. It's not worth it. Short RF rekindles a real bad recent experience. Zero desire to spend $24,000 chasing $4,000. This point can't be reiterated enough!

[FloridaPhil]

Short RF rekindles a real bad recent experience. Zero desire to spend $24,000 chasing $4,000. This point can't be reiterated enough!

Switching from max coins to single coin play is tough. It's a total reboot, especially if you have already invested thousands waiting for royals that never showed. You have to write off your investment and start a new ledger. Once you make the switch, you will find you can play a lot more hands with your money. You may have to buy your own beer, but you won't be paying $100 an hour for it. You will still win, but your wins will be smaller. You will get used to going home even or only down a few bucks. That alone is refreshing in itself.

It all depends upon what you want out of VP. Ask yourself why you are playing VP. Is it the thrill of a hand pay? If so, up your bankroll, stick with max coins and expect to have depressing days along with your thrills. Is VP a way to kill some time away from the house? Then single coin quarter play may work for you. If you are playing VP to make money, there are plenty of experts that can tell you what to do.

You won't hurt yourself playing single coin quarters. You won't get all that excited either. You will have a nice day at the casino without drama and without losing a lot of money. You won't be depressed because those royals that you need to get your money back didn't happen again. You will smile more and won't have to blame anyone for your bad luck. You will be free of the burden of wondering if the machines are rigged. If you want excitement, take the money you would have given the casino and take your wife or girlfriend out to a fancy restaurant for dinner. Buy her a gift without her expecting it. Bring home some flowers or send her a love letter. What you get in return will be worth a lot more than any casino can comp you.

[Eduardo]

Bought my wife some flowers and wrote a love letter. I woke up with a gift certificate to the dog groomer under my pillow. Thank you for making my dreams come true.

[Vman96]

In my opinion if the casinos would just pay the correct amount for the royal for bet One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to fit 5/ One, the casinos would get a lot more business especially from seniors. So many people dream of hitting the Royal, but get discouraged when they have to bet 5 qyarters Or five dollars at a time.

But the casino isn't gonna make a hell of a lot off someone betting one quarter a hand. The hourly loss they create won't do much for their bottom line. They want people willing to lose more per visit.

Boyd's recent player club changes clearly show they don't want VP players. Slot players keep the lights on.

[FAA]

As I have maintained, I seek the thrill of my first hand pay. It would also be my last as I plan to destroy my player cards. In the ongoing struggle to limit losses, I have chosen sliding scale play. It's a bittersweet compromise.

[billryan]

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I think the Boyds changes were inadvertent and will be corrected next quarter. The old program was pretty easy to exploit. Right now they over-reacted.