Cheap Advantage Play?

[FloridaPhil]

TheDirector, in my opinion that was the finest best written post I have ever seen on this forum. Let's recognize that everyone doesn't want the same thing when they play VP and try to get along. Not everyone is comfortable playing big denominations or moving to Vegas in order to gain an edge. Professionals should care less if someone plays short coin to limit their losses. Video poker is big enough to accommodate every player and every playing style. This forum should be also.

[onemoretry]

TheDirector, in my opinion that was the finest best written post I have ever seen on this forum

Agreed.

[Webman]

Perhaps I'm not quite at the level on this forum where my comments carry any weight, but here are my two cents...

For the past 15 years or so, my wife and I have consistently played 1.5-3.0M coin-in per year at a large, New England casino. Our bets rarely exceed $5 so I'm comfortable stating that I have personally played about 2.5M hands of VP, give or take a few hundred thousand. We are not "professional" gamblers, however, our proficiency on those games we choose to play likely exceeds most recreational players. That opinion is based solely on the quality of play we see from those around us that are frequent players. We do not judge others on what they choose to play, but we certainly share some confidential thoughts with each other on those frequent players that make strategy errors.

I'll be the first to admit that Mr. Dancer played a large role in our decision to play VP, however, we immediately recognized that it would be virtually impossible to make a living as an "advantage player" here in the New England area. Could we do this in LV (or elsewhere) where the cost of living is substantially lower and where the VP offerings and other "things" provide such an opportunity? Certainly. Would or should we choose to do this? Absolutely not.

At our "home" casino, we have the ability to play a game that, theoretically, returns over 100%. Spectacular. Thank you to those in upper management for keeping that game alive and well. Despite numerous royals on that game over the years, if I look at our 15 years of play, we are not at or over 100%. The game also has such a high variance that we would need to be willing to risk a substantial portion of our bankroll just to experience the thrill of hitting royals. Mathematically speaking, we should not expect a 100% return because we have not played enough hands nor have we lived long enough to realize such a return. We can play every day for the rest of our lives and still never see that return. We could also play this weekend and hit a few royals and, voila, we're at or over 100%. We could also play 12,000 or so hands over one day and make quite a deposit of 100s into a few machines. Both of these scenarios can happen.

My wife and I will likely not quit playing this game, or any other game, if we are up or down. Why? The answer is quite simple. VP is a hobby. It's also therapeutic. You can't play 600-1000 hands per hour thinking about other things. You have to concentrate on each hand. Some people pay professionals for therapy sessions. We pay the machine. The machine doesn't judge us. Sometimes the machine makes us happy. Sometimes the machine frustrates us. The machine is indifferent. Sometimes we add to our bankroll. Sometimes we deplete it a bit. Often times we neither add nor subtract.

Personally, I believe that there are "advantage" players that can make a living playing VP provided that all conditions to make that happen are available. That is not the reality for the vast majority of players. Even those serious or frequent players, at least in my experience, are really just doing this recreationally. I know a few people who, by choice or circumstance, are unemployed. These individuals try to grind out a living playing VP. They believe they are professionals. That is certainly not the case. These individuals are amateurs who wrongfully believe they are professionals. I know this because I have personally witnessed their quality of play. I know this because the opportunities a professional would value (and require) as part of the overall return are non-existent. Most of these self-proclaimed professionals are borrowing money from other players just to continue playing. That's not my opinion. I'm speaking from actual experience. These individuals may or may not have been influenced to play VP by others that are truly professionals.

The Florida Phils of this world are proclaiming, ad nauseum, that the Dancers of this world are selling others a bill of goods. The Dancers of this world are proclaiming, ad nauseum, that the Florida Phils of this world are advocating play that will most certainly not provide the potential for maximum return.

Personally, I would never seek to build and operate a business that teaches others to play a highly addictive game, however, I do see the "good" in helping others minimize their losses by at least playing the game properly. Likewise, I would never seek to advocate a style of play that most certainly decreases the potential for maximum return, however, I do see the "good" in helping others understand how playing short coin will minimize their losses.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying these respective positions or maybe I'm just completely wrong, however, what I do know is that the back and forth on these forums between those in both camps is appalling.

Individuals come to VP.com for information and, likely, a little entertainment. I am obviously not a VP professional but I think that I have accumulated enough knowledge over the years that I would be happy to share with those seeking information or answers about this crazy game all of us equally love and love to hate.

Perhaps all of us can rise above the petty name-calling and the point/counterpoint so pervasive on these forums and focus on what is actually important. Impart your knowledge when someone is seeking that knowledge. Find new things to talk about. Post some jackpot pics. Tell some good stories. Be ambassadors for the game. Remain intellectually honest.

And with that, since I selfishly want the last word, I would ask Webman to close this thread and remind everyone to comport themselves as adults.

Quoting and locking.