Cheap Advantage Play?

[olds442jetaway]

Some people just like to work no matter what their age. For them work is an adventure, a challenge, and fun. It is also very rewarding. More than 40 years ago, I had a business that I loved it was never like work for me and every day was a new adventure.

[FAA]

We shall indeed lose a sorry chunk of our bank accounts over time on our 99.5 nonsense. I'll bring half my BR, and if the urge somehow exists after bust one I may venture to ATM. Going bust before noon is truly pathetic. Urgent Directive: Reserve dollar play for the very last 5-10 minutes. That severely limits the damage.

[FloridaPhil]

Some people just like to work no matter what their age. For them work is an adventure, a challenge, and fun. It is also very rewarding. More than 40 years ago, I had a business that I loved it was never like work for me and every day was a new adventure.

Billy thinks people work because they are stupid. He thinks the smartest people play video poker for a living. He doesn't like me because I question his heroes. I suspect he doesn't like himself very much either. I asked him if her ever had a wife or kids so I could ask him if he would wants his kids to be professional gamblers. His answer would tell us a lot about the things he values in life.

My son runs the business I started in 1969. He employs people. His employees are valued as members of his family and he cares about them. They enjoy their work. They create software for banks that help the economy grow. They buy houses, cars and save for retirement. They have kids of their own. That is what work is suppose to be. None of those things would happen if my son sat in a casino all night playing video poker. Video poker is entertainment after you have done your work. It's not a career choice.

[billryan]

We shall indeed lose a sorry chunk of our bank accounts over time on our 99.5 nonsense. I'll bring half my BR, and if the urge somehow exists after bust one I may venture to ATM. Going bust before noon is truly pathetic. Urgent Directive: Reserve dollar play for the very last 5-10 minutes. That severely limits the damage.

Sleep until the crack of noon. Then when your peers are getting rundown at 3pm, you are at a huge advantage. Never negotiate until after dinner, and press your advantage.

[billryan]

Some people just like to work no matter what their age. For them work is an adventure, a challenge, and fun. It is also very rewarding. More than 40 years ago, I had a business that I loved it was never like work for me and every day was a new adventure.

Billy thinks people work because they are stupid. He thinks the smartest people play video poker for a living. He doesn't like me because I question his heroes. I suspect he doesn't like himself very much either. I asked him if her ever had a wife or kids so I could ask him if he would wants his kids to be professional gamblers. His answer would tell us a lot about the things he values in life.

My son runs the business I started in 1969. He employs people. His employees are valued as members of his family and he cares about them. They enjoy their work. They create software for banks that help the economy grow. They buy houses, cars and save for retirement. They have kids of their own. That is what work is suppose to be. None of those things would happen if my son on sat in a casino all night playing video poker. Video poker is entertainment after you have done your work. It's not a career choice.

I don't like you because you are a liar. Pretty simple.
You say I don't like you because you question my heroes.
Okay, who are my heroes? I'll bet you anything you can't name one.
I loved all three jobs I ever had. Grew up the son of a paratrooper and became one myself.
Collected comics and ended up running three stores. Enjoyed the nightlife and became the managing partner in the second largest club in Queens.
Along the way I helped my third generation family business grow for the fourth. Somewhere around 85% percent of third generation businesses fail and it was touch and go for a bit during the 2007-2008 recession. One of our biggest clients went bankrupt owing us six figures.
But I digress. Phil was enlightening us about who my heroes are. Let's see if he pays attention to anything anyone but he writes.
Two heroes, Phil. You should be able to do that standing on you head.

[case]

Phil:
On Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:18 pm in this thread you said you would not mention Dancer again. Otabill asked you not to mention Dancer and you replied "works for me"

Well you have made 8 more posts in this thread since then and have mentioned Dancer 5 times. Dancer does not come on here much any more but you just keep attacking him. Of course you will say you don't mind Dancer but hates what he stands for.....whatever that means. If you want to argue with everyone do it on your own merit instead of going after an absentee (Dancer). Webman has also asked you the same.

[FloridaPhil]

Posting on this subject makes me feel like I need a good hosing down. I don't want to talk about it any more. Professional gambling is about making a profit no matter what you have to do or endure. It's about dark smokey places and high level hustlers. It's about working over the system and convincing yourself you are superior to others. It's electronic prostitution.

To be honest, being banned from this forum would be a welcome relief. I am tired of dealing with the consistent harassment. I will say the management of this website have been fair with me and for that I am grateful. The people who are harassing me don't like what I say because it questions their credibility. Getting rid of me won't stop this. As long as this con survives, there will always be another Florida Phil.

If you want to continue to promote it, enjoy yourself. I want to be part of a forum where people talk about having fun playing VP. I thought the Recreational Forum was going to be that place. Instead the "profit at all cost" members won't let us talk in peace. Tell Bob Dancer he can say anything he wants and I won't comment. Hopefully we can get back to talking about playing video poker instead of promoting "easy money".

[stevel96a1]

Phil just ignore them, your audience revolves around Bob dancers and Bill ryans, the common man on the east coast is a dying breed, we combat house edges 99.54 and below. i would pay 20$ of my hard earn money to see someone rack in 20grand in red chipping 15$ min bet on the east coast and get away with card counting for a years worth, having said that next runner up is down town deuces at el cortez a woppin 0.92 edge thats more than minium wagers make depending where in usa you live. i imagine if you live cheap in LV, married and both of you clock in hours on end on that .92 edge you might make some cash.

that may not appeal to a banker or a lawyer salary or even a doctors but growing up in philadelphia that 100.76 beats the snot of working at retail shop such as tower records or rite aid or any other crap job from out of high school. im sure theres alot of advantage play out there i don't have access to it right now

[FloridaPhil]

Thanks for the comment. I honestly don't care what happens in Vegas or any other so called advantage opportunity mecca. All I ever want to talk about is playing the games I have to play and they are all 96% to 98% games. Whenever I post about how I play these games, the people you mention hijack the thread with insults. This causes me to react and they don't like what I have to say. If they left us alone, there would be no need to discuss anything but our own business.

Is there a solution? Yes. Ban me from posting on the Strategy Forum and ban Billy from posting on the Recreational Forum. Bob Dancer should be able to post anywhere he wants as long as he is willing to engage the conversation fully instead of his usual one post "hit and run" tactic. I have voluntarily banned myself from the Strategy Forum, so we are already half way there. The Stories Forum should be limited to stories and we can leave it at that.

The other members of this forum seem to be intelligent people who have thoughtful and useful things to contribute. Many don't agree with me. They think about what they say before they say them and I appreciate that. I am willing to talk politely with anyone who treats me with the same courtesy.

As long as Billy is allowed to continue his war on me, this forum will be a worthless battleground.

[TheDirector]

Perhaps I'm not quite at the level on this forum where my comments carry any weight, but here are my two cents...

For the past 15 years or so, my wife and I have consistently played 1.5-3.0M coin-in per year at a large, New England casino. Our bets rarely exceed $5 so I'm comfortable stating that I have personally played about 2.5M hands of VP, give or take a few hundred thousand. We are not "professional" gamblers, however, our proficiency on those games we choose to play likely exceeds most recreational players. That opinion is based solely on the quality of play we see from those around us that are frequent players. We do not judge others on what they choose to play, but we certainly share some confidential thoughts with each other on those frequent players that make strategy errors.

I'll be the first to admit that Mr. Dancer played a large role in our decision to play VP, however, we immediately recognized that it would be virtually impossible to make a living as an "advantage player" here in the New England area. Could we do this in LV (or elsewhere) where the cost of living is substantially lower and where the VP offerings and other "things" provide such an opportunity? Certainly. Would or should we choose to do this? Absolutely not.

At our "home" casino, we have the ability to play a game that, theoretically, returns over 100%. Spectacular. Thank you to those in upper management for keeping that game alive and well. Despite numerous royals on that game over the years, if I look at our 15 years of play, we are not at or over 100%. The game also has such a high variance that we would need to be willing to risk a substantial portion of our bankroll just to experience the thrill of hitting royals. Mathematically speaking, we should not expect a 100% return because we have not played enough hands nor have we lived long enough to realize such a return. We can play every day for the rest of our lives and still never see that return. We could also play this weekend and hit a few royals and, voila, we're at or over 100%. We could also play 12,000 or so hands over one day and make quite a deposit of 100s into a few machines. Both of these scenarios can happen.

My wife and I will likely not quit playing this game, or any other game, if we are up or down. Why? The answer is quite simple. VP is a hobby. It's also therapeutic. You can't play 600-1000 hands per hour thinking about other things. You have to concentrate on each hand. Some people pay professionals for therapy sessions. We pay the machine. The machine doesn't judge us. Sometimes the machine makes us happy. Sometimes the machine frustrates us. The machine is indifferent. Sometimes we add to our bankroll. Sometimes we deplete it a bit. Often times we neither add nor subtract.

Personally, I believe that there are "advantage" players that can make a living playing VP provided that all conditions to make that happen are available. That is not the reality for the vast majority of players. Even those serious or frequent players, at least in my experience, are really just doing this recreationally. I know a few people who, by choice or circumstance, are unemployed. These individuals try to grind out a living playing VP. They believe they are professionals. That is certainly not the case. These individuals are amateurs who wrongfully believe they are professionals. I know this because I have personally witnessed their quality of play. I know this because the opportunities a professional would value (and require) as part of the overall return are non-existent. Most of these self-proclaimed professionals are borrowing money from other players just to continue playing. That's not my opinion. I'm speaking from actual experience. These individuals may or may not have been influenced to play VP by others that are truly professionals.

The Florida Phils of this world are proclaiming, ad nauseum, that the Dancers of this world are selling others a bill of goods. The Dancers of this world are proclaiming, ad nauseum, that the Florida Phils of this world are advocating play that will most certainly not provide the potential for maximum return.

Personally, I would never seek to build and operate a business that teaches others to play a highly addictive game, however, I do see the "good" in helping others minimize their losses by at least playing the game properly. Likewise, I would never seek to advocate a style of play that most certainly decreases the potential for maximum return, however, I do see the "good" in helping others understand how playing short coin will minimize their losses.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying these respective positions or maybe I'm just completely wrong, however, what I do know is that the back and forth on these forums between those in both camps is appalling.

Individuals come to VP.com for information and, likely, a little entertainment. I am obviously not a VP professional but I think that I have accumulated enough knowledge over the years that I would be happy to share with those seeking information or answers about this crazy game all of us equally love and love to hate.

Perhaps all of us can rise above the petty name-calling and the point/counterpoint so pervasive on these forums and focus on what is actually important. Impart your knowledge when someone is seeking that knowledge. Find new things to talk about. Post some jackpot pics. Tell some good stories. Be ambassadors for the game. Remain intellectually honest.

And with that, since I selfishly want the last word, I would ask Webman to close this thread and remind everyone to comport themselves as adults.